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We need a left-wing alliance to promote an open, tolerant and multicultural society

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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    I think you are behind the times. The Conservative Party changed its primary name to Conservative and Unionist Party on 15th March 2016 and on the same day adopted Conservative Party as a description.

    http://search.electoralcommission.or...strations/PP52

    Mind you they appear to have adopted the description (which they still retain) of David Cameron's Conservatives on 2nd February 2001 which must have come as a shock to William Hague who was party leader at the time!
    Gasp. Didn't know about this. Also, I don't care.
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    Who says multicultralism works, or that we need more of it? I think integration and cohesion, plus minimal immigration, with visas, is the way forward. We need a common thread. We will definitely not have multiculturalism or similar tolerance when Islam is the majority religion here. I say when, not if.
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    (Original post by JIRAIYA-ERO-SENNIN)
    "England does not love coalitions"--Benjamin Disraeli.

    This is always one of the pipe-dreams of left-wings students everywhere where the left is not strong.

    History is not kind left-wing coalitions. If leftists can barely work together in their own parties, what makes you think they will succeed with others? The great problem with the left is a perennial obsession with ideological purity. Everything will inevitably degenerate into a petty competition of who is more virtuious and socialist than whom. The Greens will hate labour for not being green enough, Labour will hate the greens for compromising security and for being generally embarrassing (because the Greens are embarassing let's be honest). And no one can possibly be in league with the SNP, this is treachery and electoral suicide.

    Left-wing coalitions are usually pretty pathetic.
    You are right but don't just pin the blame on socialists. Liberals were just as bad in the 20th century for fighting socialists and communists instead of the flipping fascists over there trying to kill everything.
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    Isn't the concept of an alliance required becuase the simply isn't enough support for majority? Perhaps what is needed is a stronger left wing rather than a rag tag alliance of parties.

    Even if there was such an alliance I can't see how this would be beneficial for the left, the messages would be unclear and if they did make it to power half the time would be spend keeping the alliance together rather than getting things done. Labour look incoherent now as it is, that is before you enter into the equation a party like the SNP.
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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    I'll hand it to the Tories, they're remarkably good at maintaining unity on their side of the political spectrum. Apart from UKIP there's never been a meaningful impact from any other right-wing parties, unlike the left that fractures into smaller parts periodically.
    Parties always seem pretty united when they're doing well. It's when things are bad that the splitters crawl out of the woodwork.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    The trouble is that they are notoriously difficult to get together and make work. The Greens won't work with the Blairites, the Blairites won't work with the socialist left, the liberals won't either, etc, etc.

    It's true that a progressive alliance would beat the Tories every time on sheer numbers, but mobilising it is a whole different matter.
    Ever thought that's potentially because "progressive" is an all-but-meaningless strapline? Quite what Blairites are supposed to have in common with the Green Party, I've got no idea.

    I mean, bloody hell, the only official "progressives" in UK politics were when the Tories, Liberals and some independents formed explicitly anti-Labour and anti-socialist Progressive groups in Scottish local government up to the 1970s. Maybe we'll have to start resurrecting that.
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    We had a left-wing alliance. It was called the Labour Party.

    Then Paul Mason and his hard left mates flooded into the Labour Party to transform it into a fringe protest movement. Corbyn and Momentum are destroying the only serious, effective left-wing coalition this country has ever had. But they don't care; they'd rather destroy the Labour Party than allow it to be led by someone who could actually win an election, and in doing so have to present a political programme that will be acceptable to a broad swathe of the British people not just Momentum extremists.
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    We had a left-wing alliance. It was called the Labour Party.

    Then Paul Mason and his hard left mates flooded into the Labour Party to transform it into a fringe protest movement. Corbyn and Momentum are destroying the only serious, effective left-wing coalition this country has ever had. But they don't care; they'd rather destroy the Labour Party than allow it to be led by someone who could actually win an election, and in doing so have to present a political programme that will be acceptable to a broad swathe of the British people not just Momentum extremists.
    And explain to me on which exact economic policies they would differ from the Tories, how, and why therefore it is essential they are elected rather than the Tories, and how the country will differ as a result for the better.

    If you can do it, I will vote for it.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    You are right but don't just pin the blame on socialists. Liberals were just as bad in the 20th century for fighting socialists and communists instead of the flipping fascists over there trying to kill everything.
    From a Classical Liberal perspective, Liberals had every right to fear Socialism as much as Fascism given that both philosophies are antithetical to to property rights and and the autonomy of the individual. Even seemingly moderate Socially Democratic parties were heavily influenced if not infiltrated by Marxists, so could not be trusted by Liberals.
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    (Original post by JIRAIYA-ERO-SENNIN)
    From a Classical Liberal perspective, Liberals had every right to fear Socialism as much as Fascism given that both philosophies are anti-thetical to to property rights and and the autonomy of the individual. Even seemingly moderate Socially Democratic parties were heavily influenced if not infiltrated by Marxists, so could not be trusted by Liberals.
    Liberals allied with socialists in the Spanish civil war and relied on the socialist ground forces. A liberal that fears those socialists above that of the fascists is a moron and may as well support fascism, it has the same outcome. Might explain why every liberal democracy at the time essentially sided with Franco by pursuing their stupid non intervention policy which starved the republic.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Liberals allied with socialists in the Spanish civil war and relied on the socialist ground forces. A liberal that fears those socialists above that of the fascists is a moron. Might explain why every liberal democracy at the time essentially sided with Franco by pursuing their stupid non intervention policy.
    I wouldn't describe Western liberal non-intervention in Spain as stupid. The Spanish Civil War was something for the Spanish to fight, it would not have been is say Britain's interests to intervene in a country we did not understand for causes we did not particularly care about. The Fascists of Spain were generally not a threat to people other than their own political enemies in Spain.
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    let's think logically here
    why is having multiple cultures something we specifically need?
    I know that there are already multiple cultures here, but why should we encourage its growth?
    what about cultures is better than non-cultures?
    what about foreign cultures is better than non-foreign cultures?
    why are you putting this emphasis on culture? culture is ****. culture is traditional. tradition is anti-logic.
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    (Original post by JIRAIYA-ERO-SENNIN)
    I wouldn't describe Western liberal non-intervention in Spain as stupid. The Spanish Civil War was something for the Spanish to fight, it would not have been is say Britain's interests to intervene in a country we did not understand for causes we did not particularly care about. The Fascists of Spain were generally not a threat to people other than their own political enemies in Spain.
    Nothing at all bad happened in Europe after Fascists won the Spanish Civil War :indiff:

    As Orwell said

    "
    Yet in the most mean, cowardly, hypocritical way the British ruling class did all they could to hand Spain over to Franco and the Nazis. Why? Because they were pro-Fascist, was the obvious answer. Undoubtedly they were, and yet when it came to the final showdown they chose to Stand up to Germany. It is still very uncertain what plan they acted on in backing Franco, and they may have had no clear plan at all. Whether the British ruling class are wicked or merely stupid is one of the most difficult questions of our time, and at certain moments a very important question "
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Nothing at all bad happened in Europe after Fascists won the Spanish Civil War :indiff:

    As Orwell said

    "
    Yet in the most mean, cowardly, hypocritical way the British ruling class did all they could to hand Spain over to Franco and the Nazis. Why? Because they were pro-Fascist, was the obvious answer. Undoubtedly they were, and yet when it came to the final showdown they chose to Stand up to Germany. It is still very uncertain what plan they acted on in backing Franco, and they may have had no clear plan at all. Whether the British ruling class are wicked or merely stupid is one of the most difficult questions of our time, and at certain moments a very important question "
    Franco winning in Spain did pose a serious strategic threat to Britain. That was emphasised by the fact that he remained neutral during the WW2. Spain simply was not important to Britain. It was a poor insignificant European power which could barely feed itself. It is not wise to get into foreign entanglements that are of no strategic value.
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    (Original post by JIRAIYA-ERO-SENNIN)
    Franco winning in Spain did pose a serious strategic threat to Britain. That was emphasised by the fact that he remained neutral during the WW2. Spain simply was not important to Britain. It was a poor insignificant European power which could barely feed itself. It is not wise to get into foreign entanglements that are of no strategic value.
    It gave Nazi Germany a massive boost and show the complete moral bankruptcy of the imperial powers.
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    Your post gave me cancer.
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    Eventually when the right wing fails the public and they grow sick of them, we'll naturally go back towards the left again. For the foreseeable future, it will be the right wing in power unfortunately.
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    (Original post by Lord Samosa)
    Eventually when the right wing fails the public and they grow sick of them, we'll naturally go back towards the left again. For the foreseeable future, it will be the right wing in power unfortunately.
    Yeah I think we'll go left again in 15-20 years if we follow the same pattern.

    There was a decisive Tory win in 83.

    Then a decisive Labour win in 97.

    By the looks of things Corbyn stays leader and the Tories clean up in 2020.

    Labour in 2030? (before then I hope)
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    When you are systematically targeting the disabled for sanctions and are still the by far the best choice party for the country, you know things are effed

    The left will have to accept people do not want mass immigration from third world cultures or fade into obscurity forever
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    (Original post by Lord Samosa)
    Eventually when the right wing fails the public and they grow sick of them, we'll naturally go back towards the left again. For the foreseeable future, it will be the right wing in power unfortunately.
    Widespread abuse of disabled people via inhumane sanctions, defiict grown, services cut with years of austerity, NHS crumbling, all sorts of scary draconian things coming back like Grammar schools (Gasp) - And yet the conservatives are ploughing on ahead in the polls

    Im afraid its over for the left. You destroyed yourselves and will be at the mercy of right wing governents for decades and its everything your sh show deserves

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