Just one sec...
Hey there! Sign in to have your say on this topicNew here? Join for free to post

Dispatches expose on Momentum - On Ch4+1 now

Announcements Posted on
Take our short survey, £100 of Amazon vouchers to be won! 23-09-2016
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Orwell wasn't a Trotskyist.

    Also Lenin is not in Animal Farm :beard:

    Trotsky is Snowball.
    Oh crap, was Napoleon Stalin? Damn I've got this all mixed up.

    And yeh I know Orwell wasn't a Trotskyist. But even so a lot of people think Lenin was a pretty bad guy. Trotsky is generally thought of as pretty decent though, hence why I don't find it particularly shocking that people in Momentum openly admit to being Trotskyists.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mojojojo101)
    My point still stands though, you should probably have a least a vague understanding of a word before you attempt to use it as an insult.
    Oh yeh for sure. Calling someone a Trotskyist isn't really an insult.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by KingBradly)
    As far as I may be from Trotskyism, I don't really find it shocking that they openly admit to being Trotskyists. Even Christopher Hitchens used to. Trotsky is generally percieved as being the good one and Lenin the bad one.
    Hitchens was a Trotskyist before he grew up politically. Keep in mind he opposed the First Gulf War, ffs.

    The leftist idea that somehow Trotsky was the good one is as laughable as the claim that Lenin was the good one, and it was only Stalin who ruined his legacy.

    Trotsky was head of the Red Army from 1918 until 1925. In that role he was deeply implicated in the Red Terror, in which hundreds of thousands of people were killed for their class background, for who they were related to, or simply so they could take their property. All of the Bolsheviks were utterly disgusting
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by KingBradly)

    But even so a lot of people think Lenin was a pretty bad guy.
    "a lot of people" are not Trotskyists. Lenin dies. Stalin wins. Trotsky loses. That is the point in the Russian Revolution story that Trotskyism starts. It is a left opposition to Stalinism which is seen as betrayal of what Lennin started.

    Napoleon was Stalin.

    Aspects of Lenin are probably found in Snowball (the Trotsky pig) who is portrayed as one of the better pigs. Although there is a lot of speculation as to why Lennin is not directly portrayed in Animal Farm :beard:

    Orwell was sympathetic to both Lenin and Trotsky (he faught in the POUM which was a trotskyist militia in Spanish civil war) even if he never really advocated their politics.

    The quote following Orwell quote is probably a fair summary of Trotskyism.

    "The fact that Trotskyists are everywhere a persecuted minority, and that the accusation usually made against them, i.e. of collaborating with the Fascists, is obviously false, creates an impression that Trotskyism is intellectually and morally superior to Communism; but it is doubtful whether there is much difference."
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    "a lot of people" are not Trotskyists. Lenin dies. Stalin wins. Trotsky loses. That is the point in the Russian Revolution story that Trotskyism starts. It is a left opposition to Stalinism which is seen as betrayal of what Lennin started.

    Napoleon was Stalin.

    Aspects of Lenin are probably found in Snowball (the Trotsky pig) who is portrayed as one of the better pigs. Although there is a lot of speculation as to why Lennin is not directly portrayed in Animal Farm :beard:

    Orwell was sympathetic to both Lenin and Trotsky (he faught in the POUM which was a trotskyist militia in Spanish civil war) even if he never really advocated their politics.

    The quote following Orwell quote is probably a fair summary of Trotskyism.

    "The fact that Trotskyists are everywhere a persecuted minority, and that the accusation usually made against them, i.e. of collaborating with the Fascists, is obviously false, creates an impression that Trotskyism is intellectually and morally superior to Communism; but it is doubtful whether there is much difference."
    Hmm, interesting. I may not see eye to eye with you, but interesting stuff here. Orwell's point is very good.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Hitchens was a Trotskyist before he grew up politically. Keep in mind he opposed the First Gulf War, ffs.

    The leftist idea that somehow Trotsky was the good one is as laughable as the claim that Lenin was the good one, and it was only Stalin who ruined his legacy.

    Trotsky was head of the Red Army from 1918 until 1925. In that role he was deeply implicated in the Red Terror, in which hundreds of thousands of people were killed for their class background, for who they were related to, or simply so they could take their property. All of the Bolsheviks were utterly disgusting

    Hmm, good points which I don't dispute. My point was more that generally Trotsky isn't perceived as a bad guy (even if he was), as the Orwell quote in CB's above post kinda asserts, so I'm just not particularly surprised that people identify as Trotskyists.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by KingBradly)
    Oh yeh for sure. Calling someone a Trotskyist isn't really an insult.
    and of course, if you were to use it as such, it would be an attempt to shut someone down without attempt to address the actual ideas in question... something the centre of the Labour part is forever accusing Corbyn supporters of...

Reply

Submit reply

Register

Thanks for posting! You just need to create an account in order to submit the post
  1. this can't be left blank
    that username has been taken, please choose another Forgotten your password?
  2. this can't be left blank
    this email is already registered. Forgotten your password?
  3. this can't be left blank

    6 characters or longer with both numbers and letters is safer

  4. this can't be left empty
    your full birthday is required
  1. Oops, you need to agree to our Ts&Cs to register
  2. Slide to join now Processing…

Updated: September 21, 2016
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Poll
Which would you rather be...?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22

Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Quick reply
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.