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Civil Service Faststream
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Motivated by money... that isn't really a phrase I'd associate with being a Civil Servant (Unless you were an SEO or above ;-) )
Very random question, but PR, do you know what's going on with regards to agency/temporary staff and working for the civil service? i.e. at the mo, you can only work for a team for a max of 11 months in e.g. the Home Office, then need a break of 6 weeks before you can return to e.g. the Home Office. However, after this, you can't go back to the same team, which is a nuisance if you've been trained to do the job and can do it, as you'd be within your rights to ask for a permanent post if you're there for say 12 months or more (from my understanding of the situation). My recruitment agency said this was slowly changing..but hmm what do they know? I should probably contact HR/the ERG about this really.. However, contacting them is easier than getting a reply!!
I need to apply for work experience or a summer placement on the Civil Service Fast Stream website me thinks - I think the FCO does this!! Does anyone know if this is really hard to get into (the civil service must get masses of applications..anyone know what the core competencies they ask for are? I guess they'd differ for each department of the CS and the grade I'd be looking at) and if work experience is only between set times i.e. summer periods, or whether I could write to HR of a specific department and ask to do it during say Christmas? If that fails, I'll go for temping at one of the CS departments again in the summer... I do love the CS
I ask too many questions!!
Very random question, but PR, do you know what's going on with regards to agency/temporary staff and working for the civil service? i.e. at the mo, you can only work for a team for a max of 11 months in e.g. the Home Office, then need a break of 6 weeks before you can return to e.g. the Home Office. However, after this, you can't go back to the same team, which is a nuisance if you've been trained to do the job and can do it, as you'd be within your rights to ask for a permanent post if you're there for say 12 months or more (from my understanding of the situation). My recruitment agency said this was slowly changing..but hmm what do they know? I should probably contact HR/the ERG about this really.. However, contacting them is easier than getting a reply!!
I need to apply for work experience or a summer placement on the Civil Service Fast Stream website me thinks - I think the FCO does this!! Does anyone know if this is really hard to get into (the civil service must get masses of applications..anyone know what the core competencies they ask for are? I guess they'd differ for each department of the CS and the grade I'd be looking at) and if work experience is only between set times i.e. summer periods, or whether I could write to HR of a specific department and ask to do it during say Christmas? If that fails, I'll go for temping at one of the CS departments again in the summer... I do love the CS
I ask too many questions!!
Hana_1987
Motivated by money... that isn't really a phrase I'd associate with being a Civil Servant (Unless you were an SEO or above ;-) )
Very random question, but PR, do you know what's going on with regards to agency/temporary staff and working for the civil service? i.e. at the mo, you can only work for a team for a max of 11 months in e.g. the Home Office, then need a break of 6 weeks before you can return to e.g. the Home Office. However, after this, you can't go back to the same team, which is a nuisance if you've been trained to do the job and can do it, as you'd be within your rights to ask for a permanent post if you're there for say 12 months or more (from my understanding of the situation). My recruitment agency said this was slowly changing..but hmm what do they know? I should probably contact HR/the ERG about this really.. However, contacting them is easier than getting a reply!!
Very random question, but PR, do you know what's going on with regards to agency/temporary staff and working for the civil service? i.e. at the mo, you can only work for a team for a max of 11 months in e.g. the Home Office, then need a break of 6 weeks before you can return to e.g. the Home Office. However, after this, you can't go back to the same team, which is a nuisance if you've been trained to do the job and can do it, as you'd be within your rights to ask for a permanent post if you're there for say 12 months or more (from my understanding of the situation). My recruitment agency said this was slowly changing..but hmm what do they know? I should probably contact HR/the ERG about this really.. However, contacting them is easier than getting a reply!!
This is what happens when badly advised/trained management negotiate bad deals with trade unions that are bent on a given political agenda without thinking things through. (One of the reasons why I think both sides need to sort themselves out on this - controversial being a member of 2 trade unions and potentially having a future role where I'll have to negotiate with them!)
Basically internal departmental staff have to get first shout on all departmental vacancies. (There are nearly always "priority movers around somewhere who need to be put somewhere.) Then the call goes out across the civil service. GIven the number of job cuts and the priority movers there, the unions have in several departments agreed to a "recruitment freeze" - hence why you can only seem to get in as a temp.
I think there's something in employment law that gives you extra rights if you've been working there a year - hence why temps who are there for that length of time are not taken on full time.
Crazy given the loss of expertise.
See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6932563.stm and drop an email to your MP to get their take on that report.
Hana_1987
I need to apply for work experience or a summer placement on the Civil Service Fast Stream website me thinks - I think the FCO does this!! Does anyone know if this is really hard to get into (the civil service must get masses of applications..anyone know what the core competencies they ask for are? I guess they'd differ for each department of the CS and the grade I'd be looking at) and if work experience is only between set times i.e. summer periods, or whether I could write to HR of a specific department and ask to do it during say Christmas? If that fails, I'll go for temping at one of the CS departments again in the summer... I do love the CS
I ask too many questions!!
I ask too many questions!!
Best thing to do is to stay in touch with your line manager AND someone from HR and pester them non-stop in the run-up to your holidays. They are more likely to take on someone who they know is good and not go via an agency because that costs more money than it's worth. (Agencies make a killing on this.)
All the jobs advertised are mostly always internal..hmph!! I will get in one day-lol!!
I'm sure I heard my grade 6 talking about a meeting to do with employee resourcing, so no doubt some changes are taking place..I do love working for a section of HR
Agencies don't make that much money. I get £7 an hour as an AO, and my agency charge the gov't department I work for £9.74 an hour. Plus, for my unit to not go via an agency would mean I'd have to be made casual, wouldn't it? Meaning I would be entitled to sick pay, flexi, holidays etc. so if it's all about money, it might be cheaper for them to have me as agency. Plus I wouldn't really be on the headcount, thus maintaining the illusion of keeping the number of civil servants down.
I'm sure I heard my grade 6 talking about a meeting to do with employee resourcing, so no doubt some changes are taking place..I do love working for a section of HR
Agencies don't make that much money. I get £7 an hour as an AO, and my agency charge the gov't department I work for £9.74 an hour. Plus, for my unit to not go via an agency would mean I'd have to be made casual, wouldn't it? Meaning I would be entitled to sick pay, flexi, holidays etc. so if it's all about money, it might be cheaper for them to have me as agency. Plus I wouldn't really be on the headcount, thus maintaining the illusion of keeping the number of civil servants down.
Hana_1987
All the jobs advertised are mostly always internal..hmph!! I will get in one day-lol!!
I'm sure I heard my grade 6 talking about a meeting to do with employee resourcing, so no doubt some changes are taking place..I do love working for a section of HR
Agencies don't make that much money. I get £7 an hour as an AO, and my agency charge the gov't department I work for £9.74 an hour. Plus, for my unit to not go via an agency would mean I'd have to be made casual, wouldn't it? Meaning I would be entitled to sick pay, flexi, holidays etc. so if it's all about money, it might be cheaper for them to have me as agency. Plus I wouldn't really be on the headcount, thus maintaining the illusion of keeping the number of civil servants down.
I'm sure I heard my grade 6 talking about a meeting to do with employee resourcing, so no doubt some changes are taking place..I do love working for a section of HR
Agencies don't make that much money. I get £7 an hour as an AO, and my agency charge the gov't department I work for £9.74 an hour. Plus, for my unit to not go via an agency would mean I'd have to be made casual, wouldn't it? Meaning I would be entitled to sick pay, flexi, holidays etc. so if it's all about money, it might be cheaper for them to have me as agency. Plus I wouldn't really be on the headcount, thus maintaining the illusion of keeping the number of civil servants down.
Sick pay and holidays are statutory and you should get those anyway from your agency. In the short term it's less hassle for an over-stretched HR, but multiply it all out for one AO over the year and that's £100 per week - or £5000 per year going to the agency. Multiply that across lots of people and lots of departments and that's a tidy little earner for an agency.
As you say, agency staffing comes out of a different budget - maintaining the illusion as you say.
Temporary staff don't get sick pay. Well, I don't and nor do any of my colleagues. I'm actually really good with taking time off sick - my old boss knew when I was seriously ill as I normally came in to spread my germs if I could get out of bed, as I didn't and don't get paid. I only took 2 sick days and told my agency to pay me as holiday for those instead lol.
Also, oh my gosh!! Agencies do make a killing out of staff!! I've never looked at how much they get from me over say an 11 month period as I've always thought it peanuts compared to my hourly rate! I tend to work just over a 40 hour rate, so they must be making insane amounts if other staff do the same!
I know what I'm doing when I'm older-forget being a Civil Servant, I'm owning my own recruitment agency ;-)
Edit: Oh, was slightly demoralised when I saw this http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A938865 Admin assistants being the "lowest of the low", and it's admin officer's that "keep the place running"?! Hmph!! AA's do a lot I will have them know!!! They're just as vital, maybe even more so hmph!! I did more work as an AA than I do now as an AO. However, this isn't a debate about grades
Also, oh my gosh!! Agencies do make a killing out of staff!! I've never looked at how much they get from me over say an 11 month period as I've always thought it peanuts compared to my hourly rate! I tend to work just over a 40 hour rate, so they must be making insane amounts if other staff do the same!
I know what I'm doing when I'm older-forget being a Civil Servant, I'm owning my own recruitment agency ;-)
Edit: Oh, was slightly demoralised when I saw this http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A938865 Admin assistants being the "lowest of the low", and it's admin officer's that "keep the place running"?! Hmph!! AA's do a lot I will have them know!!! They're just as vital, maybe even more so hmph!! I did more work as an AA than I do now as an AO. However, this isn't a debate about grades
Hana_1987
Edit: Oh, was slightly demoralised when I saw this http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A938865 Admin assistants being the "lowest of the low", and it's admin officer's that "keep the place running"?! Hmph!! AA's do a lot I will have them know!!! They're just as vital, maybe even more so hmph!! I did more work as an AA than I do now as an AO. However, this isn't a debate about grades
Any ideas who wrote that?
I'm rather interested in the fast stream.
Assuming though you did end up with a nice promotion say after five years, you were sitting on say £53,000 a year - where could you go from there?
I'm just rather concerned that being part of the government, the pay might not get particularly higher as you progress in comparison with me buggering off and doing something in the private sector.
Assuming though you did end up with a nice promotion say after five years, you were sitting on say £53,000 a year - where could you go from there?
I'm just rather concerned that being part of the government, the pay might not get particularly higher as you progress in comparison with me buggering off and doing something in the private sector.
Nope, no clue..should I? Or is it you actually enquiring as to who did?
Are you looking more about the challenges you could get from the civil service or wanting higher pay? The salary you're on depends on which part of the Civil Service you work for if I remember correctly. On having a brief look now at the civil service webpage (not the fast stream one), a chief information officer makes about £81,000 if that's what you're looking for..
Are you looking more about the challenges you could get from the civil service or wanting higher pay? The salary you're on depends on which part of the Civil Service you work for if I remember correctly. On having a brief look now at the civil service webpage (not the fast stream one), a chief information officer makes about £81,000 if that's what you're looking for..
I'd be very interested in joining the Diplomatic Service as an Economist. I'm currently learning French and will graduate with a degree in Economics/Economic History in 3 years. Do you think my application will be treated less favourably because I'm not doing pure econ? Is York the type of uni they tend to recruit from?
Hmm...think I need to destroy a few myths here.
Nationality Requirements: http://www.faststream.gov.uk/index.asp?txtNavID=67
Minimum Academic Requirements: http://www.faststream.gov.uk/index.asp?txtNavID=44
Diplomatic Service: http://www.faststream.gov.uk/index.asp?txtNavID=50
Economists: http://www.ges.gov.uk/
[INDENT]To apply to the Fast Stream, you'll need at least a 2:2 in any degree discipline and generally you must be a UK national. In most cases, your degree subject won't restrict your options.[/INDENT]
If you have any questions on the above, please read the information on the websites first.
It doesn't matter what university you went to or are at. What matters is that you meet the minimum requirements to apply and pass all of the tests to show that you have the potential to become a competent senior civil servant. The Fast Stream is a fast stream into the senior civil service. The assessment process isn't cheap i.e. the Government spends a lot of money on it. They spend a lot of money to try and ensure that they get the best people for the jobs there. (Personally I think there's a lot of room for improvement in terms of what happens for those who get there but that's another story and it can be said for any graduate recruitment profession.)
If you want to improve your chances of success in applying for the Fast Stream process, well...that's for a different thread.
Nationality Requirements: http://www.faststream.gov.uk/index.asp?txtNavID=67
Minimum Academic Requirements: http://www.faststream.gov.uk/index.asp?txtNavID=44
Diplomatic Service: http://www.faststream.gov.uk/index.asp?txtNavID=50
Economists: http://www.ges.gov.uk/
[INDENT]To apply to the Fast Stream, you'll need at least a 2:2 in any degree discipline and generally you must be a UK national. In most cases, your degree subject won't restrict your options.[/INDENT]
If you have any questions on the above, please read the information on the websites first.
It doesn't matter what university you went to or are at. What matters is that you meet the minimum requirements to apply and pass all of the tests to show that you have the potential to become a competent senior civil servant. The Fast Stream is a fast stream into the senior civil service. The assessment process isn't cheap i.e. the Government spends a lot of money on it. They spend a lot of money to try and ensure that they get the best people for the jobs there. (Personally I think there's a lot of room for improvement in terms of what happens for those who get there but that's another story and it can be said for any graduate recruitment profession.)
If you want to improve your chances of success in applying for the Fast Stream process, well...that's for a different thread.
And if you can get a professional qualification along the way, even better:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5249660.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5249660.stm
The scheme is open again for applications!
http://www.faststream.gov.uk/index.asp?txtNavID=54
Good luck!
PR
http://www.faststream.gov.uk/index.asp?txtNavID=54
Good luck!
PR
If I graduate in 2009, would I apply for the fast stream in the next cycle..i.e. when I've actually started my third year? (I'm just starting my 2nd year at the mo!)
The CS has places such as IND college though (surely it should be BIA college, non?) to train its staff, so why should you have to pay out of your own pocket for a qualification? Although, in saying that, I probably would pay if it aided my application or my job.
The CS has places such as IND college though (surely it should be BIA college, non?) to train its staff, so why should you have to pay out of your own pocket for a qualification? Although, in saying that, I probably would pay if it aided my application or my job.
Hana_1987
If I graduate in 2009, would I apply for the fast stream in the next cycle..i.e. when I've actually started my third year? (I'm just starting my 2nd year at the mo!)
The CS has places such as IND college though (surely it should be BIA college, non?) to train its staff, so why should you have to pay out of your own pocket for a qualification? Although, in saying that, I probably would pay if it aided my application or my job.
The CS has places such as IND college though (surely it should be BIA college, non?) to train its staff, so why should you have to pay out of your own pocket for a qualification? Although, in saying that, I probably would pay if it aided my application or my job.
Hi Hana,
You'll want to be applying in the autumn of your final year if you are looking to go straight in. I'd recommend getting your finals out of the way and then applying afterwards simply because preparation for the assessments can be time-consuming.
The Civil Service does have facilities to train its staff - the National School of Government is one, but employers also pay for you to take qualifications provided by other accredited providers. (Once you're in that is.)
At interview stage, your competition is the other candidates. Once you're in, the service then looks at what sort of training and development you need for the two of you to get the most out of each other.
Too many people in my mind try to "rush" the fast stream when their on it. You have an allocated training budget that works out at between 15-20 days per year. Given the amount of money courses cost this is a significant investment. (It can work out at over £10,000 per person - more so if you are in the MoD.)
All the best for your second year.
Ta!! I have a while to get my head round it and prepare then!
They're really tightening up on training courses though from what I've seen and heard. You have to really justify it now.
I'm hoping my having worked in an assessment centre in the CS over the summer will have semi prepared me for how assessments in the CS actually go!!
Now for a summer placement in the FCO..hmm, I wish they'd update their website and put the forms online or something!!
I have a while to get my head round it and prepare then!They're really tightening up on training courses though from what I've seen and heard. You have to really justify it now.
I'm hoping my having worked in an assessment centre in the CS over the summer will have semi prepared me for how assessments in the CS actually go!!
Now for a summer placement in the FCO..hmm, I wish they'd update their website and put the forms online or something!!
Hey, I've got through the first round of the fast stream and have now been invited to an "e-tray event". Any ideas what I should expect from this, what I will have to do, how many people get through from this round etc etc? Has anybody done this before?
Anybody?
Angel_Cake
Hey, I've got through the first round of the fast stream and have now been invited to an "e-tray event". Any ideas what I should expect from this, what I will have to do, how many people get through from this round etc etc? Has anybody done this before?
You're given a set of electronic documents (hence "e-tray" rather than paper tray). The idea is that you need to read through the information in there before coming up with your recommendation.
You'll be given some background to the subject area, a set of choices from which you make your recommendation and a set of criteria from which you have to use when coming to your choice.
Only use the information that you are given, and make a decision about how you are going to present your arguement. Are you going to go through each choice against the criteria or vice-versa? THere is no "right" answer. This test is on your ability to form a coherent arguement.
It might be an idea to send an FOI request to a department of your choice asking for a copy of the template civil servants use when making submissions.
Good luck!
PR
Angel_Cake,
I have also made it to the e-tray event on 3rd jan so hopefully I will have worked New Years' out of the system by then
One of my friends from Uni started a Clerkship in Parliament this Oct so I will be interrogating him for useful information on the selection process. Do you know anyone else that has made it through yet?
PM me if you fancy discussing this further.
Charlie
_____________________________________
tempus fugit
I have also made it to the e-tray event on 3rd jan so hopefully I will have worked New Years' out of the system by then
One of my friends from Uni started a Clerkship in Parliament this Oct so I will be interrogating him for useful information on the selection process. Do you know anyone else that has made it through yet?
PM me if you fancy discussing this further.
Charlie
_____________________________________
tempus fugit
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