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What salary should a graduate with a 2:1 or 1st expect?

Reply 60

Alan Smithee

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Reply 61

ChemistBoy

16

sins55

Funny you should say that, before I start my career, I've been working as an Intern at one of the many government departments as an Economist and I'm one of the few people to actually work with the data on a day in day out basis and I can guarantee you it's true. It's done using a specific RPI statistic that includes the cost of living on a local basis and then earnings are controlled for via regional dummies.

It can't be true, simply because I, like many other people, would get paid the same if I was working in Nottingham or Oxford and it is much more expensive to buy property in Oxford (so your monthly outgoings would be greater for a property of equivalent size). It's really quite as simple as that for most people - there isn't a gradual increase in salaries for particular jobs as you approach London, there is a sudden drop as you leave the M25 and that's about it for most people.

Reply 62

andthatswhy

Is it really a sudden drop? Says who? My impression was the opposite. There might be a structural break at the M25, but I'm pretty sure distance to london and real salaries will correlate significantly. Anecdotally, I definitely command a higher wage in Oxford than I do in Liverpool.

More anecdotes.. I'm starting on double what I'd start on outside of London, and although my accomodation will cost me double what it would back home, everything else will not be that much more expensive. I easily expect the increased cost of living to be more than offset by my salary weighting. Of course, this isn't the full extent as President Ben touched on. I won't, but most of my friends will be on 5x a 'northern' graduate salary in 5 years, and that will definitely cover their increased costs of living! When trying to figure out how good a salary is, pay a lot of attention to whether it increases at inflation, or doubles every two years. Those starting on 22K will one day dream of hitting 30K. Yet many of those jobs that come with a 42K starting salary, also come with an expectation that will be 100K in a few years.

Reply 63

fblade

14

TheGreatest21

I am currently doing Games Computing and I am aiming for a 1st in all my years. I'm wondering what salary I would earn if I got a job in London at Sony's games studio? Or on average what a Games Designer/Programmer would earn?

I would say about 20-25K, games programming doesn't pay well. And it does help to be in the US where most jobs are. I would personally be an engine (or AI) programmer. I think seniors hit about 50-60K. You could perhaps start your own studio with about 6-7 people create games (or tools) and be bought by the big companies.

Reply 64

WoWZa

14

Programming pay is a bit of a joke generally. They offer good starting packages, but the pay, I don't think, is anywhere good enough for some of the skills required. That's why I think they're in so much demand, haha.

Reply 65

Artemidoros.

3

From what I hear the starting salary for chem eng graduates with a 2:1 or 1st is around 25-35k

Reply 66

shady lane

16

ChemistBoy

It can't be true, simply because I, like many other people, would get paid the same if I was working in Nottingham or Oxford and it is much more expensive to buy property in Oxford (so your monthly outgoings would be greater for a property of equivalent size). It's really quite as simple as that for most people - there isn't a gradual increase in salaries for particular jobs as you approach London, there is a sudden drop as you leave the M25 and that's about it for most people.

So you're disagreeing with government economic statistics because it doesn't seem true to you? Kind of a ridiculous way to stick to a point that is quite easily disproved.

Reply 67

Drogue

19

sins55

I wouldn't get out of bed for less than £25k. I've just been offerred a good position that pays well over 30 and I have no experience. It's a proven labour statistic anyways that the cost of living in london is far outweighed by the salary increase - so I don't know why all this negative talk of london.

Even considering what you've said below, I claim this to be utter crap. Yes, using specific-RPI measures you do, but these don't take into account differences in what people spend it on. For example most people in London share houses, massively-lessening housing cost. I'm not spending much more on my accommodation than one of my friends living in Leeds, but I share with 2 people and he lives alone. Also, add to that the "keeping up with the Jones'" idea that people actually consider their wealth relative to people near them, not to what they can buy in absolute terms. Since there are far more very rich people in London, this makes other people feel poorer. For example, in Northampton I can eat at the best, most expensive restaurants whereas in London I can't afford to. The fact that London the best London restaurants are far plusher skews specific-RPI measures, or any absolute measure, as it's not the actual good that matters, but that good relative to what else is around. It's the fact that if I was living in Northampton I could afford to eat wherever I want but in London I can't, even given wage differences, that is the bigger difference.

Add to that that in London hours are much longer - find a 35 hour a week job and compare that in salary to a 35 hour a week job outside of London - and you start to see why there's all the negative talk about London. Yes, there are a lot of bankers and quite a few consultants starting on £35-100k that mean the average graduate wage is much higher, but they're working 50+ hours a week. Even normal jobs like accountancies work 40-50 and have training on top in London, slightly more hours than outside of London.

Moreover look at industries. In London people do different jobs to those outside London. If you compare like with like, you find salaries aren't that different. It's just being a banker you have to be in London, as are most CEOs/top level execs since their company headquarters are in the capital. But they're not a fair comparison. You don't compare the CEOs salary to a regional-manager and say "oh he can afford more even with London prices". Of course he can, that's because he's got a different job.

So if you compare like with like, and look not just at absolute measures of what you can buy but what it feels like you can buy, you feel a lot poorer in London and work more hours. Plus if you're not a banker, there's not even that much of an absolute difference, as a graduate. I saw offered the same wage at the same company in London or Northampton, on a graduate programme. I've seen finance companies offer the same wage in London and Edinburgh. I've seen many, many firms add a relatively token 'London weighting' of £2-3k. For a graduate, working in an job that can be based both in London and elsewhere, the one living elsewhere usually has more spending power, and certainly is more better off relative to what's available, ie. how rich they actually feel. So that's why there's all this negative talk about London.

Reply 68

fblade

14

WoWZa

Programming pay is a bit of a joke generally. They offer good starting packages, but the pay, I don't think, is anywhere good enough for some of the skills required. That's why I think they're in so much demand, haha.

Although I did see a job post for an Actionscript Developer for 25k! Some/Most other jobs require several languages/scripts.

Yeah packages are nice, some make you play games during work and free lunch and pizzas :biggrin:

Reply 69

ChemistBoy

16

shady lane

So you're disagreeing with government economic statistics because it doesn't seem true to you? Kind of a ridiculous way to stick to a point that is quite easily disproved.

At the end of the day I am not in an unusual situation by working in (effectively) the public sector, where outside london, pay is often standardised across the country. Quoting a single figure for inside and outside london is a massive oversimplification of the fact that costs change between other parts of the country too and in many cases salaries do not. Simply saying that you will be 30% better off working in London than someone outside is not true because it depends on where that person is working. It is a statistic that is too simplified to have any true meaning when comparing realistic situations because you are comparing working in London with a statistical artifact.

Also, trusting government statistics blind is a bit silly given the number of valid criticisms how large and important statistics such as crime and employment are collected and most importantly, used.

Reply 70

student20077

what is the point of posting these silly questions. i mean just type it in google. there is so many articles on this. why do users on this thread type up essay answers i mean dont u lot have lives?

Reply 71

Ali07

student20077

what is the point of posting these silly questions. i mean just type it in google. there is so many articles on this. why do users on this thread type up essay answers i mean dont u lot have lives?

Can you provide links to these articles please? I would like to know starting salaries of management grads. I am waiting.

Reply 72

GuyUK

OP

12

student20077

what is the point of posting these silly questions. i mean just type it in google. there is so many articles on this. why do users on this thread type up essay answers i mean dont u lot have lives?

and could you provide statistical analysis, facts and figures to make your claim legit

Reply 73

mayavara

ChemistBoy

Well lucky you, the rest of us don't get such salaries in our chosen professions.

Have been reading some of your posts, you really amuse me - you choose to do a low-paying job, then seem to have so much bitterness and anger about how you don't get paid well compared to others. The vast majority of people I know graduated on £30-40k (barely know anyone who didn't head straight to London), the exceptions were those doing PR (£25k at good firms, but with all the free alcohol/parties/socialising it's worth £30k), accountancy (start on £24-26k at Big 4, but goes to £45k after 3yrs studying) and teachers (£24k starting in London).

Reply 74

la fille danse

17

Your experience is hardly representative though, obviously.

The average graduate starting salary - I believe - is around 20K.

Reply 75

Clubber Lang

15

Meh..my friend has GCSEs and some very poor A level grades. He bummed around for a while, started on 14k and went up to 30k with a free car/petrol within a year or so. The next step is to around the 60-85k mark with a couple of years experience. Outside of London

End of the day - it all varies so much that its quite a pointless argument!

Reply 76

TotalImmortal

Clubber Lang

Meh..my friend has GCSEs and some very poor A level grades. He bummed around for a while, started on 14k and went up to 30k with a free car/petrol within a year or so. The next step is to around the 60-85k mark with a couple of years experience. Outside of London

What the hell is he doing? :redface:

Anyway, I think it's all subjective really. IB folks on here expect 60k+ down the line, while others here will be pleased on 30k.

I wouldn't say it takes much to live comfortably though, 25k would net you a decent living, especially if you found a similar earning partner.

Reply 77

ChemistBoy

16

mayavara

Have been reading some of your posts, you really amuse me - you choose to do a low-paying job, then seem to have so much bitterness and anger about how you don't get paid well compared to others. The vast majority of people I know graduated on £30-40k (barely know anyone who didn't head straight to London), the exceptions were those doing PR (£25k at good firms, but with all the free alcohol/parties/socialising it's worth £30k), accountancy (start on £24-26k at Big 4, but goes to £45k after 3yrs studying) and teachers (£24k starting in London).

Actually I'm doing alright for myself thanks, if I was in London I would be earning close to £30k a year. The reason why I'm angry is because my profession is completely undervalued compared to the contribution it makes to society and the amount of high level training and ability it requires - that's why we went on strike recently (if you remember). I started on what could be considered a very good graduate salary outside London, but I need a PhD to do the job! Very few jobs require that level of expertise, yet pay the same or better, even in the state sector. Not that I expect this situation to change, compared to teachers we are on a bed of roses.

Reply 78

Brown Patrick Bateman

10

ChemistBoy

The reason why I'm angry is because my profession is completely undervalued compared to the contribution it makes to society and the amount of high level training and ability it requires.

Since when was there any correlation?!

Reply 79

ChemistBoy

16

Chassez

Since when was there any correlation?!

There isn't mostly (although many people with other professional specialisms tend to earn more money than they would in the same industry without them), but why does that mean I can't feel disgruntled about it? It is quite obvious to me that if we wish to recruit more people into science (as is constantly stated by the government and the media) and science teaching then we need to start paying better. However that is going off on a tangent, just explaining myself.

What salary should a graduate with a 2:1 or 1st expect?

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