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Chances of success at the bar?

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for some advice on going to the bar.

I go to a very good RG uni have A*A*A at a level (I was out for a year with extenuating circumstances) but only sat exams in year 1 (then had a break) and then the next exams in year 2.

I just missed the 2:1 in first year (extenuating circumstance) and then interrupted studies for a year so am still in the second year when I should be in the third. This is with full support of my university and has all been documented by my doctor.

I am finally regaining health! I have started getting high 2:1s which I am very happy about. But I applied for a mini-pupillage which I wasn't able to secure which I can only think is because of my sketchy record. My personal tutor said it should be okay because my reasons are genuine and proven but it doesn't feel that way.

What should I do? Take a masters and apply later with a, hopefully, high grade?

Are there other careers I should consider? Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks

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The only question that really matters is this; are you going to finish your degree with a 2:1 or higher overall? If the answer is 'yes', all of the other issues become largely irrelevant. It may be that you get a question in interview as to why your law degree took four years rather than three, in which case you can provide a simple answer. But otherwise providing you tick the box of getting a 2:1 or higher in your degree, you are unlikely to encounter any issues arising from falling short of a 2:1 in your first year.

If the answer is 'no', the situation becomes a little more complicated. You may well be able to point towards extenuating circumstances, but the harsh reality is that whoever is reading your pupillage application will also have read countless others that boast a 2:1 without the need for extenuating circumstances. Your 2:2 therefore becomes something of an issue. Not, I will stress, as much of an issue as those that have a 2:2 without extenuating circumstances, but an issue nonetheless. If you end up with a 2:2 it may well be an idea to do a Masters to demonstrate the 'true' level of your intellectual ability, though in fairness your A-Level grades do that to some degree as well. But otherwise your application will have to stand out to the extent that it mitigates the '2:2' on your application form, and that is not an easy thing to do.

As regards your mini pupillage application, it may be that your 2:2 in your first year contributed to you not getting accepted. It may be that it played no part at all and the Chambers in question just had far too many applications. There's plenty of time for you to secure mini pupillages, and indeed you should look at approaching Chambers that don't have formal application processes and/or are likely to deal with a lower volume of applications (generally smaller/regional sets) as well as applying to larger sets.
Original post by Crazy Jamie
The only question that really matters is this; are you going to finish your degree with a 2:1 or higher overall? If the answer is 'yes', all of the other issues become largely irrelevant. It may be that you get a question in interview as to why your law degree took four years rather than three, in which case you can provide a simple answer. But otherwise providing you tick the box of getting a 2:1 or higher in your degree, you are unlikely to encounter any issues arising from falling short of a 2:1 in your first year.

If the answer is 'no', the situation becomes a little more complicated. You may well be able to point towards extenuating circumstances, but the harsh reality is that whoever is reading your pupillage application will also have read countless others that boast a 2:1 without the need for extenuating circumstances. Your 2:2 therefore becomes something of an issue. Not, I will stress, as much of an issue as those that have a 2:2 without extenuating circumstances, but an issue nonetheless. If you end up with a 2:2 it may well be an idea to do a Masters to demonstrate the 'true' level of your intellectual ability, though in fairness your A-Level grades do that to some degree as well. But otherwise your application will have to stand out to the extent that it mitigates the '2:2' on your application form, and that is not an easy thing to do.

As regards your mini pupillage application, it may be that your 2:2 in your first year contributed to you not getting accepted. It may be that it played no part at all and the Chambers in question just had far too many applications. There's plenty of time for you to secure mini pupillages, and indeed you should look at approaching Chambers that don't have formal application processes and/or are likely to deal with a lower volume of applications (generally smaller/regional sets) as well as applying to larger sets.


Your reply has really made my day- thank you.

I think I will be able to het a high 2:1 and I will be making every effort to do so.

I have tried to reach out to as many chambers and am systematically applying, hopefully I'll be able to secure a mini soon and my ego might recover from the rejection- perhaps I need a thicker skin when applying.

Again, thanks for your reply.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Flissyflossy
Your reply has really made my day- thank you.

I think I will be able to het a high 2:1 and I will be making every effort to do so.

I have tried to reach out to as many chambers and am systematically applying, hopefully I'll be able to secure a mini soon and my ego might recover from the rejection- perhaps I need a thicker skin when applying.

Again, thanks for your reply.
This is almost certainly the case. Not that that is a judgment on you personally. One of the more common characteristics of students who want to be barristers is that they have no issue making it known how badly they want to be a barrister. The reality is that very few of those students have ever experienced genuine failure, and therefore most don't have any realistic grasp of what tenacity looks like when trying to become a barrister. The fact is that when those students have finished the bar course without pupillage and are unsure of what to do next, many of them ultimately fall away from the process.

Getting constant rejections, both for mini pupillages and pupillages, is hard. But it is something that you are probably going to have to learn to deal with to stand a realistic chance of becoming barrister. Just remember that statistically you're likely to be on the receiving end of a lot of rejections simply because the numbers are against you. It's not necessarily a judgment on your ability. Your focus should constantly be on what you can do to improve both your paper application and your experience/ability. If you do that you'll give yourself the best chance of standing out from the crowd, which ultimately is the route to getting an interview and then a pupillage offer.
Original post by Crazy Jamie
This is almost certainly the case. Not that that is a judgment on you personally. One of the more common characteristics of students who want to be barristers is that they have no issue making it known how badly they want to be a barrister. The reality is that very few of those students have ever experienced genuine failure, and therefore most don't have any realistic grasp of what tenacity looks like when trying to become a barrister. The fact is that when those students have finished the bar course without pupillage and are unsure of what to do next, many of them ultimately fall away from the process.

Getting constant rejections, both for mini pupillages and pupillages, is hard. But it is something that you are probably going to have to learn to deal with to stand a realistic chance of becoming barrister. Just remember that statistically you're likely to be on the receiving end of a lot of rejections simply because the numbers are against you. It's not necessarily a judgment on your ability. Your focus should constantly be on what you can do to improve both your paper application and your experience/ability. If you do that you'll give yourself the best chance of standing out from the crowd, which ultimately is the route to getting an interview and then a pupillage offer.


I am not known for my thick skin, admittedly. No time like the present to work on it! I'm aware that, statistically the numbers are not in my favour but I am working very hard to improve where possible.

I really appreciate the time and effort you've put into replying to my thread. I feel much better placed to continue with my application, thank you.
It's not necessary to have a scholarship or to have a First - but both would help. I'm not sure whether a Masters would really help unless its from Cambridge ( need a First anyway?) or the BCL .

Just because you've not got the first mini pupillage you've applied for doesn't mean you won't get any. Just be persistent.

I have a close Oxbridge relation at a very good ( commercial / public) set in London without a scholarship or First but with excellent and unusual ECs and an Outstanding / Prize at the BPTC. You need something on your CV first page to get the attention of whoever's reading the applications and stop them ditching you. Your CV needs to be meticulous and beautifully set out - get someone to check it for you. Read the CVs of young barristers at the sort of sets you ideally want to be at for ideas. Essay competitions, prizes, work experience, marshalling etc. will all help. With a chequered career like yours you need evidence that you can work very hard, with consistency and have total commitment to Law etc. Hoping they'll just overlook your past isn't good enough . I repeat - they'll need hard evidence.
I'm not sure why you are being so hostile towards @pickup. You've seemingly already answered your own question about your chances at the bar...
Reply 7
I'm hoping J-SP will not rise to the bait of the above post . This above also confirms why some in the legal profession come across as arrogant and self - important . Finally , to mention Legal Cheek , which is regarded as a joke by many ( and they are usually too busy to spend time reading it ) says it all .
There are commercial barristers with < 5 years call who don't have first class degrees. Although I couldn't be bothered to check I would be amazed if there weren't some who have a first but no Inn scholarship. (After all pupillage applications are made for many non-gateway sets before scholarship offers are made. This year the same will be true of gateway sets. So getting a scholarship will come too late to boost pre-BPTC applications).

I don't know if there is are any commercial barristers with < 5 years call with neither a first nor a scholarship of some amount. If I had to guess I would say probably not, but I wouldn't be amazed if there were.
(edited 7 years ago)
I spent five minutes and found one, so I would be surprised if it took me an entire weekend to find more.

Georgina Leadbetter at Littleton (couldn't get link to work because of brackets in the URL, but you will find her).

Edit: Sophia Berry at the same set has a 2:1 and no BPTC scholarship (or at least, none listed on her profile under 'Awards').
(edited 7 years ago)
See my edit - there is another at the same chambers with a 2:1 and no scholarship.
I don't really see how not having a scholarship could be a barrier to the commercial bar. This year almost nobody who is applying for pupillage pre-BPTC will have a scholarship when they apply because the Gateway closes before scholarship interviews take place. (They could have a scholarship if they deferred from a previous year, or if they have one of the GDL scholarships where the inn promises to at least match it for the BPTC).

It has always been the case that many non-gateway sets make offers before scholarship interviews.

Obviously I do not dispute that the majority of those who get commercial pupillages do as a matter of fact have inn scholarships. My point is that the timing means that the lack of a scholarship cannot be a barrier as such.
(edited 7 years ago)
I had a (slightly) related question. I'm a trainee at a MC firm but, to be perfectly honest, I'm regretting my choice. I'm planning to stay until I qualify and have been doing a few minis when I can fit them in. I got a first in Juris (in mods and a minor prize in finals). However, I'm aware the commercial bar is very tough (BCLs +). Do you think I'd have a shot at pupillage at a good commercial set and any thoughts? Thanks :smile:

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