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The Ultimate England Thread

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    LOL, we're gonna win fail miserably at Euro 2012.
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    (Original post by El Ferrari)
    I'm clearly talking about overall, hence I said he has a better goal to game ratio...

    OH LOL. Can't believe this...
    Van Persie didn't play as a centre forward at club level until Ade left in 09, so he hasn't been a striker. Holland have also only played their current formation since late 08, so comparing their goal scoring rates overall when you have just said fits "the" system better is pointless.

    Still no answer on this how he fit the system better....change the record.
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    Sturridge, man of the match?

    PAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA, everything about tonight was a joke. Same old England.
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    (Original post by facdroit)
    And by the way Hunterlaar is joint top scorer in the bundesliga too.
    Hence why I said equally as good. Stop trying to make up for your earlier massive fail, you don't even know the positions in the game.
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    Watched the first half much more closely than the second but we seem to have the same old problems. Playing Parker alongside Barry means we tend to get split into defensive and attacking blocks with little linkage between them. Too many times attacks had to be started by one of Young, Johnson, Welbeck and usually Gerrard dropping very deep, and that means we’re struggling for numbers when going forward.

    Holland actually setup fairly similar, with De Jong and Van Bommel holding, but they can get away with it by relying on the individual brilliance of Robben, Sneijder and now Van Persie. Imagine the WC 2010 side with RVP on the form he is now. :coma: Shame that Robben and Sneijder have gone backwards, although I’d imagine both are capable of a few brilliant performances in a row in tournament football. Truth is we were up against a better team. Downing against Robben? Welbeck against Van Persie? The only guy we’ve got on a similar level to the 3 Dutch guys I’ve mentioned isn’t available.

    Going forward I think we need someone alongside Parker who’s better on the ball than Barry, someone more of a playmaker. The best 2 guys I can think of for that role, Scholes and Wilshere, are both unavailable. Assuming Gerrard starts the Euros in the same role he did today the only real option I can think of is Carrick, but that’s not ideal because in too many matches his passing is too conservative which won’t fix anything. Hopefully Wilshere will get fitness and form going into the tournament and will play that role for the first 2 games, and then compete with Gerrard (although it wouldn’t be a natural role for him) when Rooney gets back and takes the position he plays at Utd.

    Quality finishes for both of our goals, Pique-esque from Cahill, but I thought too many players let their heads drop after the 2 quick Dutch goals. Can put it down to inexperience I guess.
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    (Original post by Dorito)
    PAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA, everything about tonight was a joke. Same old England.
    3-2 against the WC semi finalist is a joke? Winning would be what then, acceptable? Its a good result unless you think England are on the same level as Spain/Brazil and co.


    I thought it was a good game. Parker lost concentration at the end, probably when he needed to up it with the introduction of Milner. I think we really missed Rooney, needed a link up with Welbeck who was too isolated. Johnson was ineffective. Young showed why he is the best standard option for LW, although AOC could also be worth a try. Micah Richards looked a bit tired, and Jones looked out of his depth at RB. Smalling really stating a claim for CB ahead of Ferdinand at least. England need to perform on that level against equal or lower opposition rather than worrying about coming up against Spain or Holland.
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    (Original post by SciFiBoy)
    Wellbeck was too isolated till after we were 2-0 down

    Sturridge was okay at best, nothing like as good as he is capable of.
    Perhaps, but I still thought that his effort and link-up play were to be commended.
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    I don't think it was as close cut as the score-line suggests. The first goal from England was clearly off side however I know how difficult it is for the linesmen at times so I'll let that one pass. The second goal however came about after some seriously sloppy defending from Holland. In the end I think Holland just had too much quality for England and you only have to compare players from each team and you begin to realise how out of their depth some of our players really are. Welbeck vs RvP? I know who I'd want on my team. Johnson vs Robben? Hmm..

    Anyway it's a friendly; it's not the end of the world and besides, Holland reached the final of the 2010 WC so it's not a bad result by any stretch of the imagination. Although a lot of work needs doing with that England side.
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    (Original post by Louis.)
    Truth is we were up against a better team. Downing against Robben? Welbeck against Van Persie? The only guy we’ve got on a similar level to the 3 Dutch guys I’ve mentioned isn’t available.
    I think that pretty much summed up the Dutch tonight, they knew they had the quality in attack. The only weakness was that back 4 and De Jong and Van Bommel where really disciplined. In the first half we had them under control with Parker and Barry, but their midfield two didn't push to help them. In the second half we pressed higher to try and get more help to Welbeck and that's when we lost the cover and the Dutch class came out. I think the Dutch needed that shift to ease the pressure for the attack, England needed to be a bit more patient and disciplined, and potentially be happy with the 0-0.
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    (Original post by doggyfizzel)
    3-2 against the WC semi finalist is a joke? Winning would be what then, acceptable? Its a good result unless you think England are on the same level as Spain/Brazil and co.
    They were World Cup finalists mate.

    We created very little, for the most part Holland looked comfortable. The first goal was offside, highlighted by the fact Heitinga was 2 yards away from Cahill and just stopped... ALL of the goals we conceded were due to undisciplined and quite frankly, terrible defending that wasn't helped by Barry and Parkers usual act of running around like a headless chicken and 5 yard passes to each other. Terrible subsitutions, terrible tactical decisions and clearly absolutely no awareness of players best positions from Pearce. Our second goal was decent but Holland had switched off. Kicked them into life again though when they decided to walk it past us again, seemingly scoring whenever they felt like it.

    3-2 flatters us.
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    Things will only get worse under Redknapp as he also thinks Parker is a good player. :facepalm:
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    As Louis said, we were up against a better team - individually and as a unit. Let's not fool ourselves and think the England team out there was as good as Holland's. Off the top of my head, probably 7/8 of the players who started for Holland tonight also started for them in the WC final. I imagine most of them would have also played together in the similar system when qualifying for the 2010 WC, so from 2008ish. They're players who have played together for a long time. Then there is the individual brilliance. When you play a lot of young players you should expect some indiscpline, midfield combination wasn't right but I thought it was a decent performance all things considered.
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    (Original post by Dorito)
    They were World Cup finalists mate.

    We created very little, for the most part Holland looked comfortable. The first goal was offside, highlighted by the fact Heitinga was 2 yards away from Cahill and just stopped... ALL of the goals we conceded were due to an undisciplined and quite frankly, terrible defending that wasn't helped by Barry and Parkers usual act of running around like a headless chicken and 5 yard passes to each other. Terrible subsitutions, terrible tactical decisions and clearly absolutely no awareness of players best positions from Pearce. Our second goal was decent but Holland had switched off. Kicked them into life again though when they decided to walk it past us again, seemingly scoring whenever they felt like it.

    3-2 flatters us.
    Sorry, its just a mis type.

    Not sure about created very little, both teams created very little in the first half. Robben forcing a save from Hart is the closest the Dutch came. The goals where sloppy but their weren't characteristic of the game, and moments like that were to be expected how many times has that back 4 played in front of Hart compared to the other end? Disagree about Parker and Barry, they did a near mirror of De Jong and Bommel on the other side yet theirs wasn't headless. Its just the job they had to do, and they had to do it more often. Te 5 yard passes were the patient build up that was lacking in the second half, Parker bombing forward led to the first goal. The main problem was the lack of a link between Welbeck who isn't on the same level as RVP or Huntelaar who had Sneijder as well, that link up meant Parker and Barry were stretched in a way we were never able to do to the Dutch. Who was he meant to substitute for Gerrard, knowing he would need to replace one of Parker or Barry later on and Downing having played more than 90 at the weekend?

    I think maybe 2 goals is a bit better than we deserved, but 3 goals was more than the Dutch deserved. I certainly wouldn't describe the result or the performance as a joke.
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    Just watched the highlights and it looks as if England created quite a lot. Looked much better than other games I'd seen, anyway.
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    (Original post by Louis.)
    Watched the first half much more closely than the second but we seem to have the same old problems. Playing Parker alongside Barry means we tend to get split into defensive and attacking blocks with little linkage between them. Too many times attacks had to be started by one of Young, Johnson, Welbeck and usually Gerrard dropping very deep, and that means we’re struggling for numbers when going forward.

    Holland actually setup fairly similar, with De Jong and Van Bommel holding, but they can get away with it by relying on the individual brilliance of Robben, Sneijder and now Van Persie. Imagine the WC 2010 side with RVP on the form he is now. :coma: Shame that Robben and Sneijder have gone backwards, although I’d imagine both are capable of a few brilliant performances in a row in tournament football. Truth is we were up against a better team. Downing against Robben? Welbeck against Van Persie? The only guy we’ve got on a similar level to the 3 Dutch guys I’ve mentioned isn’t available.

    Going forward I think we need someone alongside Parker who’s better on the ball than Barry, someone more of a playmaker. The best 2 guys I can think of for that role, Scholes and Wilshere, are both unavailable. Assuming Gerrard starts the Euros in the same role he did today the only real option I can think of is Carrick, but that’s not ideal because in too many matches his passing is too conservative which won’t fix anything. Hopefully Wilshere will get fitness and form going into the tournament and will play that role for the first 2 games, and then compete with Gerrard (although it wouldn’t be a natural role for him) when Rooney gets back and takes the position he plays at Utd.

    Quality finishes for both of our goals, Pique-esque from Cahill, but I thought too many players let their heads drop after the 2 quick Dutch goals. Can put it down to inexperience I guess.
    Spot on. I think if Wilshere can get fully fit before the Euro's and get some form back a midfield three of Wilshere, Parker and Gerrard would pretty much have the perfect balance.
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    (Original post by little_wizard123)
    Just watched the highlights and it looks as if England created quite a lot. Looked much better than other games I'd seen, anyway.
    I thought we were really good. Some inexperience letting robben shoot on his left foot, Baines did poorly for 3rd but meh, it was good really.
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    (Original post by Deshi)
    Spot on. I think if Wilshere can get fully fit before the Euro's and get some form back a midfield three of Wilshere, Parker and Gerrard would pretty much have the perfect balance.
    Yeah I've thought this for some time. Having Wilshere would link the play a bit more. It would've been nice to see more from Gerrard.

    How did Milner play in the second half? He's better going forward than Barry, so playing alongside Parker should also work quite well.
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    (Original post by Dorito)
    They were World Cup finalists mate.

    We created very little, for the most part Holland looked comfortable. The first goal was offside, highlighted by the fact Heitinga was 2 yards away from Cahill and just stopped... ALL of the goals we conceded were due to undisciplined and quite frankly, terrible defending that wasn't helped by Barry and Parkers usual act of running around like a headless chicken and 5 yard passes to each other. Terrible subsitutions, terrible tactical decisions and clearly absolutely no awareness of players best positions from Pearce. Our second goal was decent but Holland had switched off. Kicked them into life again though when they decided to walk it past us again, seemingly scoring whenever they felt like it.

    3-2 flatters us.
    another typical english pessimist - its pretty funny reading all your hate posts..

    england created just as much as holland, tbf we had the better chances to score.. we just werent clinical enough, and both teams looked pretty comfortable - just two poor pieces of defending from youngsters conceding the goals
    the second half of your post is basically acting as if this is a must-win game, "terrible substitutions" and so on.. find something better to do with your time lmao
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    (Original post by WhySoLimey)
    another typical english pessimist - its pretty funny reading all your hate posts..

    england created just as much as holland, tbf we had the better chances to score.. we just werent clinical enough, and both teams looked pretty comfortable - just two poor pieces of defending from youngsters conceding the goals
    the second half of your post is basically acting as if this is a must-win game, "terrible substitutions" and so on.. find something better to do with your time lmao
    we're gonna win Euro 2012.

    Harry Redknapp will save English football.

    Scott Parker is a good player.

    Youth is the key.

    that better?
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    Very good comeback, but I feel that what the team makes up in spirit, it lacked in experience, bar Gerrard. If that young team stays together for a while, it could do good things.

    Wasn't Parker's best night, but I don't feel that Parker could lead a team, but he can compliment one very well.

    I love Cahill. Terrific performance.

    Stuart Pearce went with a lot of the players he used for u21, a safe choice, something he knows, and for a friendly, who cares?

    Decent result, next time at home, get a win.
Updated: June 8, 2014
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