Proper age of consent
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Well the two things are different. Marriage in certain cases is okay indeed, but sex, I would say no to.
My opinion is this since, as you might know; it's common that an arranged marriage is made between very young couples in India. Boys are married to girls as young as 9 years old and the marriage works out.
My opinion is this since, as you might know; it's common that an arranged marriage is made between very young couples in India. Boys are married to girls as young as 9 years old and the marriage works out.
Morbo
And the law says that because most people think 12-year-olds cannot consent!
A 12 year old is capable of agreeing to take part in a sexual act. Just because they probably don't understand the nature of the act doesn't mean they can't agree to take part in it. They can consent, just not in the legal sense.
Morbo
The law does not decide what people can and cannot do, it just sets out the procedures for dealing with people who break it. You are all backwards in your understanding of the legal system.
The law does not decide what people can and cannot do, it just sets out the procedures for dealing with people who break it. You are all backwards in your understanding of the legal system.
The word consent can be used in both a legal and non-legal sense. As I said before a 12 year old can consent, but our laws say that 12 year olds are not developed enough for their consent to legally count. Therefore if the law was changed to lower the age of consent then they would be able to give legal consent.
However I happen to agree with the current laws that a 12 year old isn't mentally developed enough to take part in sexual acts, so their consent (in the non-legal sense) shouldn't count legally.
Psyk
A 5-year-old can consent in a non-legal sense too. I fail to see the relevance.
Bismarck
A 5-year-old can consent in a non-legal sense too. I fail to see the relevance.
Which is why it's important to set a line under which consent doesn't count.
Normally in these discussions when people talk about consent they mean legal consent. Which is why I said the only reason a 12 year old can't consent is because the law says so. I'm not disagreeing with that law.
We need an overhaul of how age of consent laws work tbh. In particular, you need to sort out what to do when people are close to the legal age and it isn't certain they knew one another's age. I'd say you set one age at perhaps 14 where under that age "not knowing" is not an excuse. You then have another age, 16, under which it is still illegal, but the burden of proof would also require that one can show the defendant knew that the "victim" was under age. You should also make an explicit exception if the age difference is less than a few years. I.e you shouldn't convict a 17 year old for having sex with somebody 15.
Also, please note that this is completely separate from cases where there was no consent. If there was no consent then it is rape, plain and simple, and the age doesn't matter.
Also, please note that this is completely separate from cases where there was no consent. If there was no consent then it is rape, plain and simple, and the age doesn't matter.
While I am at first all in favour of protecting twelve year olds, it occurs to me that historically this was a rather normal, if uncommon, age to be married at. England in the middle ages is full of twelve year old brides and thirteen year old grooms. For that matter Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI (the 'husky' one) were married at 14, and it was arranged while they had never seen each other.
To be quite frank, I believe that the age of consent should be eliminated and replaced with a graded system of age ranges. For example, until the age of fourteen I believe the maximum age difference between sexual participants should be 12 months (although I really don't like the idea of sex at this age). From fourteen to sixteen it should be 24 months, at sixteen becoming 36 months, and 48 months at seventeen until at eighteen you can do as you please with whomever.
Just my spiel though.
To be quite frank, I believe that the age of consent should be eliminated and replaced with a graded system of age ranges. For example, until the age of fourteen I believe the maximum age difference between sexual participants should be 12 months (although I really don't like the idea of sex at this age). From fourteen to sixteen it should be 24 months, at sixteen becoming 36 months, and 48 months at seventeen until at eighteen you can do as you please with whomever.
Just my spiel though.
SolInvictus
While I am at first all in favour of protecting twelve year olds, it occurs to me that historically this was a rather normal, if uncommon, age to be married at. England in the middle ages is full of twelve year old brides and thirteen year old grooms. For that matter Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI (the 'husky' one) were married at 14, and it was arranged while they had never seen each other.
To be quite frank, I believe that the age of consent should be eliminated and replaced with a graded system of age ranges. For example, until the age of fourteen I believe the maximum age difference between sexual participants should be 12 months (although I really don't like the idea of sex at this age). From fourteen to sixteen it should be 24 months, at sixteen becoming 36 months, and 48 months at seventeen until at eighteen you can do as you please with whomever.
Just my spiel though.
To be quite frank, I believe that the age of consent should be eliminated and replaced with a graded system of age ranges. For example, until the age of fourteen I believe the maximum age difference between sexual participants should be 12 months (although I really don't like the idea of sex at this age). From fourteen to sixteen it should be 24 months, at sixteen becoming 36 months, and 48 months at seventeen until at eighteen you can do as you please with whomever.
Just my spiel though.
Should I list some of the other common practices in 17th century Europe?
12 year olds are more easily manipulated and pressured into doing things they are not completely comfortable with than 16 year olds. This is why I think they should be protected by the law. Also most girls I know that had sex that young were useless with their contraception.
As for marriage at 12 it just sounds silly to me. You change so much from when you are 12 to when you are 18 so it seems like a bad time to make a committment like that. Even 18 is probably too young for a lot of people to be getting married.
As for marriage at 12 it just sounds silly to me. You change so much from when you are 12 to when you are 18 so it seems like a bad time to make a committment like that. Even 18 is probably too young for a lot of people to be getting married.
Jonatan
We need an overhaul of how age of consent laws work tbh. In particular, you need to sort out what to do when people are close to the legal age and it isn't certain they knew one another's age. I'd say you set one age at perhaps 14 where under that age "not knowing" is not an excuse. You then have another age, 16, under which it is still illegal, but the burden of proof would also require that one can show the defendant knew that the "victim" was under age. You should also make an explicit exception if the age difference is less than a few years. I.e you shouldn't convict a 17 year old for having sex with somebody 15.
Also, please note that this is completely separate from cases where there was no consent. If there was no consent then it is rape, plain and simple, and the age doesn't matter.
Also, please note that this is completely separate from cases where there was no consent. If there was no consent then it is rape, plain and simple, and the age doesn't matter.
That's sensible but there can still be issues at those boundary ages. It's a bit uncommon but it is possible for a girl that's under 14 to look over 16. A while ago there was a guy that had sex with a 10 year old, but even doctors agreed she was physically comparable to a 16 year old, and even her behaviour was more mature than you would expect of a 10 year old. Obviously the guy should have thought about what he was doing before he had sex with her (no sympathy here) but he probably wasn't actually aware she was underage. Obviously that's a very extreme case, but at the age of about 13 it's more common (once I met a a girl who I would have guessed was 16-17, but turned out to be 13).
Well, perhaps the law could be more elastic where people of similar ages are concerned, but I think people would try to take advantage of any leeway given. It should be the responsibility of both parties to find out each other's age. If the girl lies about her age (difficult to prove) then maybe some leniency should be applied, but only in couples of similar ages.
NO!!! 12 is still so young!! i see girls who are 12 and sleeping around and it is just SICK. they are just kids!! i think 16 is a good age (i am 16) because you are old enough mentally and physically. although, lets face it, a lot of 16-year-olds are very immature. but its not like you can make them take a maturity test to see if they are old enough to have sex!! my cousin was 12 when she got pregnant - the father was married and in his thirties and his wife was ALSO pregnant - and she had been seeing him, and was flattered that he was into her and so believed him when he said that if she "loved" him she would have sex with him. it is just twisted and wrong. i am sorry, but 12 is too young to even think about sex!!
oh. and of course it is too young to get married!! sorry, i forgot that!!
Is sex any more damaging than snogging or holding hands? To anybody? Assuming contraception is used of course...
Perhaps i'm as unaware of the terrible consequences as a 12 year old. I can remember that i was gagging for it before the age of 13, and have been ever since. The only reason i wasn't doing it at 12, and haven't since (yet), is that i didn't feel close enough to anyone.
I only know one couple that were definitely doing it at 12 (split up long ago of course), and neither of them seem damaged in the slightest.
Who are we to determine that they lack the maturity or physical development? How the hell are we going to stop them? Why do we want to stop them? Will we extend the prohibition to include snogging and cuddling; after all, how are such actions so profoundly different to sex?
Speaking of which, do current age of consent laws apply to snogging or cuddling? The idea of a 40 year old guy snogging a 12 year old strikes me as every bit as disgusting as actual sex. That said, the laws should protect children from abuse; not pander to the disgusts of bystanders.
Should an adult be convicted of a criminal offence and put on the sex offenders' register for having sex (or an inappropriate relationship even if it doesn't involve actual intercourse) with a child? IMO, only if there is evidence that the relationship was damaging to the child's development.
Perhaps i'm as unaware of the terrible consequences as a 12 year old. I can remember that i was gagging for it before the age of 13, and have been ever since. The only reason i wasn't doing it at 12, and haven't since (yet), is that i didn't feel close enough to anyone.
I only know one couple that were definitely doing it at 12 (split up long ago of course), and neither of them seem damaged in the slightest.
Who are we to determine that they lack the maturity or physical development? How the hell are we going to stop them? Why do we want to stop them? Will we extend the prohibition to include snogging and cuddling; after all, how are such actions so profoundly different to sex?
Speaking of which, do current age of consent laws apply to snogging or cuddling? The idea of a 40 year old guy snogging a 12 year old strikes me as every bit as disgusting as actual sex. That said, the laws should protect children from abuse; not pander to the disgusts of bystanders.
Should an adult be convicted of a criminal offence and put on the sex offenders' register for having sex (or an inappropriate relationship even if it doesn't involve actual intercourse) with a child? IMO, only if there is evidence that the relationship was damaging to the child's development.
The problem is that most 12 year olds dont bother to use contraception properly. It cant be good for society to have loads of pregnant 12 year olds.
ForumFreak
The problem is that most 12 year olds dont bother to use contraception properly. It cant be good for society to have loads of pregnant 12 year olds.
That obviously can't be the only problem that we have. Or the only correct response would be to offer more extensive sex education and free contraceptives. That's already the case to an extent - at my last school (soo much better than this one), they had a basket of morning after pills in two of the girls' toilets. They had condoms in the boys' for a while, but people just used them as water balloons
.No, most people who object, have a more particular concern than the possibility of child pregnancy and STDs.
Shaun39
Is sex any more damaging than snogging or holding hands? To anybody? Assuming contraception is used of course...
Perhaps i'm as unaware of the terrible consequences as a 12 year old. I can remember that i was gagging for it before the age of 13, and have been ever since. The only reason i wasn't doing it at 12, and haven't since (yet), is that i didn't feel close enough to anyone.
I only know one couple that were definitely doing it at 12 (split up long ago of course), and neither of them seem damaged in the slightest.
Who are we to determine that they lack the maturity or physical development? How the hell are we going to stop them? Why do we want to stop them? Will we extend the prohibition to include snogging and cuddling; after all, how are such actions so profoundly different to sex?
Perhaps i'm as unaware of the terrible consequences as a 12 year old. I can remember that i was gagging for it before the age of 13, and have been ever since. The only reason i wasn't doing it at 12, and haven't since (yet), is that i didn't feel close enough to anyone.
I only know one couple that were definitely doing it at 12 (split up long ago of course), and neither of them seem damaged in the slightest.
Who are we to determine that they lack the maturity or physical development? How the hell are we going to stop them? Why do we want to stop them? Will we extend the prohibition to include snogging and cuddling; after all, how are such actions so profoundly different to sex?
I think age of consent laws are there to protect young people from older predators rather than to stop them having sex. That's why I think courts should use common sense to choose when to punish people. For example a 30 year old and 15 year old is going to be pretty wrong in most cases, and it would be stupid to suggest that a 16 year old and 15 year old is just as wrong.
Also if two 12 year olds have sex, I don't think they would have actually committed a crime since neither are over the age of consent.
To have sex where it is legal should be able to have knowledge of what sexd really is ( i mean do 12 year olds have sufficent info on this i cant remember) and the consequences e.g STDs and pregnancy! What would a average 12 year old girl say if you asked her what clamidia was and how they could stop it? what would they say?
Marriage - absolutely not, no way. That's a life long commitment (in theory at least) and you can't make that kind of decision at 12. I don't really think you can make that decision until you're minimum 18.
Sex - that's a different issue, our sex education in this country is at best lacking, at worst damaging and demeaning. I work with young people and there's a couple I see regularly who are 13. They practise safe sex and are very sensible and mature about things. Likewise I know friends of my brother (who's 17) who are barely mature enough to say penis without giggling.
Sex - that's a different issue, our sex education in this country is at best lacking, at worst damaging and demeaning. I work with young people and there's a couple I see regularly who are 13. They practise safe sex and are very sensible and mature about things. Likewise I know friends of my brother (who's 17) who are barely mature enough to say penis without giggling.
Harribot
To have sex where it is legal should be able to have knowledge of what sexd really is ( i mean do 12 year olds have sufficent info on this i cant remember) and the consequences e.g STDs and pregnancy! What would a average 12 year old girl say if you asked her what clamidia was and how they could stop it? what would they say?
If the average secondary school is like mine (one of the lowest ranking state schools in the UK
), then any of the kids that are literate will have read one of the numerous STDs - are killing the nation OMG!!! - posters (some of them slapped up in tasteful places like next to the canteen "menu", and next to the whiteboard in food tech). Then there's the talks they give you in first year/ year 7. Really, there's hardly a non-vegetable 12 year old in the country that isn't more aware of what safe sex means than the average guy in his 30s knows.
I don't think religion has anything to do with it. The age of consent is psychologically different for each person, people mature at different speeds. But if you're asking for an arbitrary age, I think 12 is a little young, (Although I think that's the age in Holland, right?)
For the UK at least, I don't think the law should show its approval in 12-year-olds getting it on. It should really be deemed as highly ununsual and frowned upon, otherwise there's be more pressure on children to have sex. Which is ridiculous. 12 is just out of primary school...
For the UK at least, I don't think the law should show its approval in 12-year-olds getting it on. It should really be deemed as highly ununsual and frowned upon, otherwise there's be more pressure on children to have sex. Which is ridiculous. 12 is just out of primary school...
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