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Reply 20
BibbleJW
A) You are not trained, you don't, legally speaking, know what you are doing. If they sustain an injury during the rescue, they could sue you (it has been done)

Not in this bloody country it hasn't.

Putting aside all these snivelling 'oh, but ____ might happen!'s for a second, it basically comes down to this: when you're in a situation where someone needs your help then you have two choices. One of those choices makes you a contemptable coward.
The One and Only Lady Jennington
and it was obvious my well-being was at a great risk and I sustained an injury or work restricting defect then I would not be backed by the RCN who I pay membership to for insurance purposes. At least that is how I understand it from what I have been taught.


Oh no, you might not get sick leave. Still at least you would have saved someone else from much worse eh?
Reply 22
No, the point of the matter is, that there will never be a situation where an untrained person has the choice of either rushing in and almost certainly helping, or cowering off. There is a much greater chance that, by running into a situation, you do far more harm than good.
Reply 23
Libertinus Septentrionalis
Not in this bloody country it hasn't.

Putting aside all these snivelling 'oh, but ____ might happen!'s for a second, it basically comes down to this: when you're in a situation where someone needs your help then you have two choices. One of those choices makes you a contemptable coward.


But as you rightly said, their doesn't seem to be an issue with being a coward anymore. It seems to be applauded.

'Don't get involved, you might get hurt' is the sickening individualist mantra of the day it would seem.

That a potential nurse would be more concerned with her compensation post-event than aiding a member of the public during given hypothetical event, truly appalling, and rather depressing.
Reply 24
BibbleJW
No, the point of the matter is, that there will never be a situation where an untrained person has the choice of either rushing in and almost certainly helping, or cowering off. There is a much greater chance that, by running into a situation, you do far more harm than good.


By doing nothing you guarantee more harm will come than good. By intervening you create the chance of a good outcome.

It all comes down to training with you people doesn't it. I frankly wouldn't wait for someone with the appropriate training, as it seems you yourselves would first consider your compensation before anything else, e.g. the safety and wellbeing of the person in trouble. What reason do we have to trust in your 'training' when your attitude seems so lacking in moral rectitude?

I wonder how you became a lifeguard actually.
Reply 25
Again, no. The first rule that you are taught on any first aid course is simple.
You can't help anyone if you are dead. There is no point in going into a situation that would put your life in serious danger. Especially for a nurse, who could most certainly do more good at work, rather than at home, unable to recover from an injury because the insurance didn't cover it. My advice would be to help if you can, but do not add to the danger in doing so.
tehjonny
That a potential nurse would be more concerned with her compensation post-event than aiding a member of the public during given hypothetical event, truly appalling, and rather depressing.


Exactly. So much for duty of care.
Reply 27
BibbleJW
Again, no. The first rule that you are taught on any first aid course is simple.
You can't help anyone if you are dead. There is no point in going into a situation that would put your life in serious danger. Especially for a nurse, who could most certainly do more good at work, rather than at home, unable to recover from an injury because the insurance didn't cover it. My advice would be to help if you can, but do not add to the danger in doing so.


But you aren't saying that. You are simply saying 'don't help' because you've come to the strange conclusion people are incapable without specific training.

I'm a strong swimmer who used to compete in events, and I'm not physically weak. I'm sure I could save a child from a river given it didn't have a strong current, but you'd rather I stood by the bank waving my hands in the air waiting for the emergency services to arrive. Who, from the sounds of it, would simply join me on the bank in a bit of hand wringing whilst privately considering their insurance.

I'm going to get a beer, it might make me feel slightly less depressed.
Reply 28
No, what I am saying is to take the advice of the trained professionals, who would tell you to keep out of the way, or, if it were time sensitive, to try and solve the situation, but without endangering your own life.
You say that you are a strong swimmer, but, if you went out to save a teenager and they got you in a bearhug, clinging on for their life, would you still be able to swim, or to get out of it. If they had broken their back would you be able to get them out without disrupting the injury further and possibly killing them, for which you would be held responsible? These are the situations for which we are trained, and for which we have to renew our training every month.
Reply 29
BibbleJW
No, what I am saying is to take the advice of the trained professionals, who would tell you to keep out of the way, or, if it were time sensitive, to try and solve the situation, but without endangering your own life.
You say that you are a strong swimmer, but, if you went out to save a teenager and they got you in a bearhug, clinging on for their life, would you still be able to swim, or to get out of it. If they had broken their back would you be able to get them out without disrupting the injury further and possibly killing them, for which you would be held responsible? These are the situations for which we are trained, and for which we have to renew our training every month.


How long will it take you to arrive exactly? 30 minutes, 45?

If they got me in a bearhug, I'd kick them off with whatever force necessary and leave them to it (I imagine I'd go to prison or some such ****e for this). I also wonder how you'd ascertain someone has a broken back, in a river, in a short time period? I don't think you'd be able to do that any better than me. If they did (have a broken back), would you just leave them to die? It sounds like your 'training' would dictate to you that you would. After all, if you hurt them, you could get sued!

Ultimately, your training sounds cold, vicious and more driven by your own legal concerns then the safety of the person in hypothetical danger. It sounds like your training has taught you to serve yourself before the public, to consider your own needs in a situation before those of the person in need of aid. It sounds like your training has taught you a fundamental distrust in the abilities of people, essentially that 'the public are stupid, treat them as such'.

A typical New Labour 'public servant'. You guys can't do your job, that much is evident. Why should we trust in you with such disgraceful attitudes towards public service? How is it even guaranteed that actual paramedics will arrive, rather than two of these farcical 'fast response' types, who are just about allowed to hold someones hand whilst real help arrives? Will I get actual police, or two worthless PCSO's? Will I get a trained a moral nurse, or one like the girl above who will think first and foremost about her own insurance?

I'm not sure I'd even bother calling actually, probably be more use running to the nearest pub in search of aid.
Reply 30
BibbleJW
rather than at home, unable to recover from an injury because the insurance didn't cover it.


Yes, I've heard lump sum cash payouts are a great boost to one's recovery from illness...

tehjonny
But you aren't saying that. You are simply saying 'don't help' because you've come to the strange conclusion people are incapable without specific training.

I'm a strong swimmer who used to compete in events, and I'm not physically weak. I'm sure I could save a child from a river given it didn't have a strong current, but you'd rather I stood by the bank waving my hands in the air waiting for the emergency services to arrive. Who, from the sounds of it, would simply join me on the bank in a bit of hand wringing whilst privately considering their insurance.


Indeed. If you're a normal, healthy man it's pretty much a given that you can usually do something to help in most situations.

I'm going to get a beer, it might make me feel slightly less depressed.


Alas, the booze shops are closed and all I have is a really awful bottle of vodka.

BibbleJW
for which you would be held responsible?


This is a load of crap. Nobody is going to hold anybody responsible for attempting to save someone's life and failing.
The One and Only Lady Jennington
It's not my "outlook on life/society" as a student nurse I have a legal obligation to help in any situation inside or outside of work (placement) where lives are at risk providing the risk to my life is less. If something happened to me in a situation where I helped and it was obvious my well-being was at a great risk and I sustained an injury or work restricting defect then I would not be backed by the RCN who I pay membership to for insurance purposes. At least that is how I understand it from what I have been taught.


im a nurse too adn i too have it written that i am obligated to assist inside or outside of work in any way i can.

But guess what im not insured so any instance i find myself in will not be dictated by how much money im going to get if i get injured trying to rescue a child.

What i will tell you is that when you work for NHS you get one month full pay sick leave and then half pay after that. Once you have worked for a few years you get six months full pay. Is that enough monetarian value for you?

Libertinus Septentrionalis
Putting aside all these snivelling 'oh, but ____ might happen!'s for a second, it basically comes down to this: when you're in a situation where someone needs your help then you have two choices. One of those choices makes you a contemptable coward.


your a pretenious ass at times but on this one im in complete agreement. The inaction of some people based purely on "im gonna get sued" is vile.

BibbleJW
No, the point of the matter is, that there will never be a situation where an untrained person has the choice of either rushing in and almost certainly helping, or cowering off. There is a much greater chance that, by running into a situation, you do far more harm than good.


what a perfctly logical way of explaining the fact that your a coward and attempting to hide it. A child is drowning in a body of water. What will you do? You will watch as that child goes under several times and at one point - wont come back up again.
But you phoned for properly trained people who could take any length of time to get there. A child will be dead in five minutes without oxygen. It will pass out after about two maybe three.
But you phoned for the properly trained people
If that did happen i really hope the parents of that child confront you about it. See how well your "im not trained" load of bull stands up to two people crying whislt the properly trained people pull the corspe of thier offspring out of the water. Because you werent trained. Maybe the father will hit you - hopefully several times. Maybe thier wont be any trained people on hand to assist you whilst you get the beating your despicable cowardly action fully deserve. Be kinda ironic wouldnt it.

Your kind of action disgusts me. How has honour become such a forgotten word and action?
Reply 32
OK, don't burn me but I think that the Police's reaction is a consequence of their profession and the environment that that work in unfortunately.

It's disappointing that there are criminals out there that have caused situations where police can not take any chances. I feel that police generally don't have any desire as humans or officers of the law to treat innocent people that badly or they'd do this constantly.When they arrive at a situation of uncertainty than they should not risk their lives more than they already are.

My mates brother is a policeman and has been attacked by a knife on multiple occasions and fired at with and ouzi (is that how you spell it?). There's no way on earth i would go put myself in this situation and as a citizen would forgive them for the way they treated me and put it down to one of the small snipets of nastyness that i would have to endure from time to time in exchange for the poice protecting us from all the unknown stuff that goes on.

I take my hat off to the guy who saved the people from the car and i'm sure the police have apologised for the coasreness of their actions, and have congratulated and showed him mass respect from one set of heroes to another:smile:
Reply 33
Because most people are simply not brave enough.
Libertinus Septentrionalis
Not in this bloody country it hasn't.

Putting aside all these snivelling 'oh, but ____ might happen!'s for a second, it basically comes down to this: when you're in a situation where someone needs your help then you have two choices. One of those choices makes you a contemptable coward.


My advice is to get a dog. At least it could jump into a lake to save its master or mistress without worrying about lawsuits or insurance.
Reply 35
Alot of ppl just cant be bothered with the hassle. My dad always said to me to ignore things like that because its me who will end up the victim. When i was really young i remember a situation when i told a teacher about some boys i saw stealing some equipment from school. Ended up in loads of hassle and my dad really stressed to me to always just say ' i didnt see anything'. I know its a bad mentallity to have but too often if you try to help you end up worse off. A mate of mine tried helping a women who was getting beaten in the street by her boyfriend on a night out and she turned and started attacking him and screaming at him to leave her boyfriend alone.

I saw a couple walk into a greggs the other day whilst there was a long que. The cashiers cudnt see because of how packed it was. This couple walked in, the woman had a pram with a baby and the man just cut into the que to where the sandwich shelf was and filled this bag with 6-7 sandwiches, EVERYONE saw it happen. The female stopped him and went '' no no , the cheese get the cheese ones''. He added 3-4 cheese sandwiches and then he walked out. about 30 seconds later she left the que aswell and all the people just looked at eachother and said nothing.
If people actually read the article, they'll see why he was arrested.
Reply 37
Swifter
Alot of ppl just cant be bothered with the hassle. My dad always said to me to ignore things like that because its me who will end up the victim. When i was really young i remember a situation when i told a teacher about some boys i saw stealing some equipment from school. Ended up in loads of hassle and my dad really stressed to me to always just say ' i didnt see anything'. I know its a bad mentallity to have but too often if you try to help you end up worse off. A mate of mine tried helping a women who was getting beaten in the street by her boyfriend on a night out and she turned and started attacking him and screaming at him to leave her boyfriend alone.

I saw a couple walk into a greggs the other day whilst there was a long que. The cashiers cudnt see because of how packed it was. This couple walked in, the woman had a pram with a baby and the man just cut into the que to where the sandwich shelf was and filled this bag with 6-7 sandwiches, EVERYONE saw it happen. The female stopped him and went '' no no , the cheese get the cheese ones''. He added 3-4 cheese sandwiches and then he walked out. about 30 seconds later she left the que aswell and all the people just looked at eachother and said nothing.


This post, and your opinion on these matters, is absolutely nauseating to any decent human being.
Libertinus Septentrionalis


Putting aside all these snivelling 'oh, but ____ might happen!'s for a second, it basically comes down to this: when you're in a situation where someone needs your help then you have two choices. One of those choices makes you a contemptable coward.


Isn't that easier to say in theory than do in practice? How could one predict one's behaviour in danger?
Reply 39
Libertinus Septentrionalis
This post, and your opinion on these matters, is absolutely nauseating to any decent human being.


I have not given my opinion on any of the matters. All i did was give examples of when trying to assist can get you into trouble. I also explained what my dad stressed me to do and not what i do myself. What is nauseating is that you believe you can speak for all decent human beings.

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