[ukebert]

Ooh, and decent automatic couplers as well, nice box!

[ukebert]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifKKlhYF53w

[Da Bachtopus]

The second fall:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duTK74IExV4

[Da Bachtopus]

Brilliant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmjGDBWZZFw

[ukebert]

Making me laugh Rather good however

[Da Bachtopus]

Interview (in French) with Martha Argerich:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQR0Zae_alM

Her accent is soooooo cute.

[ukebert]

I can't listen to the Piano bit though Poor recording.

[Da Bachtopus]

(Original post by ukebert)
I can't listen to the Piano bit though Poor recording.

Really? Doesn't sound that bad to me, especially for a YouTube video. Her piano is a bit out of tune at the top though. The bits of Chopin and Liszt she plays are fantastic (dunno if she has a rec of the E Minor concerto or not; the Liszt sonata she does is great).

[ukebert]

(Original post by Da Bachtopus)
Really? Doesn't sound that bad to me, especially for a YouTube video. Her piano is a bit out of tune at the top though. The bits of Chopin and Liszt she plays are fantastic (dunno if she has a rec of the E Minor concerto or not; the Liszt sonata she does is great).

It wobbles between flat and sharp, and you're right, the top end is flat anyway.

[Da Bachtopus]

(Original post by ukebert)
It wobbles between flat and sharp, and you're right, the top end is flat anyway.

I like the way she wobbles

edit: Interestingly, I can hear the pitch going up and down on longer notes (eg. the end of the Mozart), but it just doesn't register anywhere else. Must be your perfect pitch. I can tell when the piano is out (so this must be a fault with the instrument, not the recording). I usually can't tolerate badly tuned instruments, or really dogdy recordings. This sort of fluctuation must be lost on people who hear 'relative' much stonger. Though I /can/ tell at some points. Shame you can't bear listening to it, I think she's great.

[ukebert]

(Original post by Da Bachtopus)
I like the way she wobbles

edit: Interestingly, I can hear the pitch going up and down on longer notes (eg. the end of the Mozart), but it just doesn't register anywhere else. Must be your perfect pitch. I can tell when the piano is out (so this must be a fault with the instrument, not the recording). I usually can't tolerate badly tuned instruments, or really dogdy recordings. This sort of fluctuation must be lost on people who hear 'relative' much stonger. Though I /can/ tell at some points. Shame you can't bear listening to it, I think she's great.

She's no doubt a great player, but that particular recording is beyond my comfort zone

By the way, when playing with other people how far does something have to be out of tune before you notice it?

[Da Bachtopus]

(Original post by ukebert)
She's no doubt a great player, but that particular recording is beyond my comfort zone

By the way, when playing with other people how far does something have to be out of tune before you notice it?

I couldn't say, I've not played in an ensemble for ages (that would be as a 'cellist); my piano sightreading is poor, so all I do is accompany people now and then. I'd like to do a Schubert trio or something.

I presume you say with 'other people' because when you concentrate on your own playing you can't hear their intonation as well? But, basically, I could tell if a piano is out easily (and especially when the two/three strings are a few cents from each other, giving it that weird glassy effect), and anything else, probably easily too (less than a quarter-tone), but depending on the harmonic function of what they're playing. Thirds have more leeway than 5ths or 8ves. I probably couldn't tell at first if a choir was drifting, but might throughout the piece; usually in these cases I've been singing in such choirs, so I can't notice.

[ukebert]

(Original post by Da Bachtopus)
I couldn't say, I've not played in an ensemble for ages (that would be as a 'cellist); my piano sightreading is poor, so all I do is accompany people now and then. I'd like to do a Schubert trio or something.

I presume you say with 'other people' because when you concentrate on your own playing you can't hear their intonation as well? But, basically, I could tell if a piano is out easily (and especially when the two/three strings are a few cents from each other, giving it that weird glassy effect), and anything else, probably easily too (less than a quarter-tone), but depending on the harmonic function of what they're playing. Thirds have more leeway than 5ths or 8ves. I probably couldn't tell at first if a choir was drifting, but might throughout the piece; usually in these cases I've been singing in such choirs, so I can't notice.

I said with other people because minor intonation problems that would mildly irritate me when playing on my own become unbearable when playing in ensemble, to the extent that I will improvise different parts to avoid troublesome notes...

What you're hearing with the piano is the phase difference of the two notes. This phase difference I think is greatest in the harmonic series. Or something.

[Da Bachtopus]

(Original post by ukebert)
I said with other people because minor intonation problems that would mildly irritate me when playing on my own become unbearable when playing in ensemble, to the extent that I will improvise different parts to avoid troublesome notes...

What you're hearing with the piano is the phase difference of the two notes. This phase difference I think is greatest in the harmonic series. Or something.

Yea, I've studied a bit of acoustics, so I know the effect you mean. You can sometimes tune things best by counting beats produced by phase differences. I really can't stand the 'detuned' effect on pianos like you get at the top end of Argerich's in the Chopin (which sounds a bit flat as you say).

As for being sharp/flat, I can cope when a piece is played in tune with itself (though I sometimes feel peculiar when things are played in the wrong key, eg. there was a violinist in the street the other day playing the first Bach 'Cello Suite, but in D, transposed very easily obviously, and this was very strange to me, having played it myself in G -- it also made me keep thinking it was going to turn into the D major section of the Chaconne from the 2nd Partita ). I don't play enough in groups to have experience of improvising around bad notes. Though when I played elecrtic guitar in a band I took pains to make sure eveyrone's instruments were in tune otherwise I would go nuts. I really hate it when amateur guitarists can't tune their instruments properly by ear and just slap their fingers on the fifth frets and approximate. It's never in tune with itself. I would sometimes tune my friends' guitars at uni when they were out of the room because I'm such a fascist. But they could really irritate me.

So I probably have high intolerance re. how in tune ensembles are with each other, but not 'absolute' intolerance. In that video, I can only hear the fluctuating effect when there are long held notes, ie. once I establish a base frequency. If she were playing a very slow adagio it might well irritate me, but going fast, I seem to process out the wobbles.

[ukebert]

(Original post by Da Bachtopus)
Yea, I've studied a bit of acoustics, so I know the effect you mean. You can sometimes tune things best by counting beats produced by phase differences. I really can't stand the 'detuned' effect on pianos like you get at the top end of Argerich's in the Chopin (which sounds a bit flat as you say).

I'm an Acoustic Technician Of course I mainly deal in noise intrusion rather than musical acoustics

As for being sharp/flat, I can cope when a piece is played in tune with itself (though I sometimes feel peculiar when things are played in the wrong key, eg. there was a violinist in the street the other day playing the first Bach 'Cello Suite, but in D, transposed very easily obviously, and this was very strange to me, having played it myself in G -- it also made me keep thinking it was going to turn into the D major section of the Chaconne from the 2nd Partita ). I don't play enough in groups to have experience of improvising around bad notes. Though when I played electric guitar in a band I took pains to make sure everyone's instruments were in tune otherwise I would go nuts. I really hate it when amateur guitarists can't tune their instruments properly by ear and just slap their fingers on the fifth frets and approximate. It's never in tune with itself. I would sometimes tune my friends' guitars at uni when they were out of the room because I'm such a fascist. But they could really irritate me.

See I can tune my uke by ear, but not quite exactly. The strings are so short and my instrument has friction pegs, so it's difficult to adjust finely. So I often end up going to the tuner, just to get rid of that last couple of cents

So I probably have high intolerance re. how in tune ensembles are with each other, but not 'absolute' intolerance. In that video, I can only hear the fluctuating effect when there are long held notes, ie. once I establish a base frequency. If she were playing a very slow adagio it might well irritate me, but going fast, I seem to process out the wobbles.

To me the whole thing kind of wobbles, whether she's playing fast or no. For some reason I can filter out the lyrics to songs, or even filter out the spoken word so that i hear a sequence of meaningless sounds, but I can't do the same with music. If something is out of tune i know about it.

Actually having PP isn't much of an advantage with listening to music, and that's why I tend to dislike some romantic music. Baroque occupies my mind in a way that romantic doesn't. I can't just let the music flow over me, because at some level my mind is telling me what note is being played.

[Da Bachtopus]

Back on topic... Not a performance video, but I like this film:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InJQMeY6lvw

(I'm posting this bit because the A Minor English Suite is one of my favourite Bach works. Coincidentally, Argerich pwns Gould in this, I think)

[Kolya]

(Original post by Da Bachtopus)
I don't play enough in groups to have experience of improvising around bad notes. Though when I played elecrtic guitar in a band I took pains to make sure eveyrone's instruments were in tune otherwise I would go nuts. I really hate it when amateur guitarists can't tune their instruments properly by ear and just slap their fingers on the fifth frets and approximate. It's never in tune with itself. I would sometimes tune my friends' guitars at uni when they were out of the room because I'm such a fascist. But they could really irritate me.

I have a saxophone mouthpiece you would love: When I played it across the range it would be almost a semitone below the correct pitch on some notes, and a semitone above on other notes. The only note (out of all the 35 I can make with the mouthpiece) that was spot-on was the F# that I tuned the sax to...

(EDIT: Well, I could rescue a fair few of the notes with embouchure adjustment but some I could not bend enough to be acceptable, and trying to play as though you're desperately trying to save a sinking ship is not pleasant. ;no

[Eien]

Artist: Maria Callas

Song: La mamma morta

Description: Absolutely blows you away!

Link: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=N7kPHMpuLxc


Artist: Joan Sutherland

Song: Spargi d'amaro pianto (Mad Scene) (Lucia di Lammermoor)

Description: My favourite Lucia, with an incredible trill on the final E flat.

Link: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fcfUA56Zvw0


Artist: Mariella Devia

Song: Spargi d'amaro pianto (Mad Scene) (Lucia di Lammermoor)

Description: Sung in the original key, BUT with a high F at the end, the ONLY occasion I can find that this has been done. Tempo is a bit annoyingly slow, though.

Link: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KbsrQgwmw6c

[ukebert]

(Original post by Da Bachtopus)
Back on topic... Not a performance video, but I like this film:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InJQMeY6lvw

(I'm posting this bit because the A Minor English Suite is one of my favourite Bach works. Coincidentally, Argerich pwns Gould in this, I think)

Irritating voice over detracts from the music It's too loud.

[Da Bachtopus]

(Original post by ukebert)
Irritating voice over detracts from the music It's too loud.

You won't like that film then! You have to accept the recordings as part of the background. (Though some of the vignettes have little / no dialogue).