People who belittle academia bother me

Scroll to see replies

I speak as a musician and someone interested in musicology. What gets me excited is developing new perspectives on the role of functional harmony in music, the nature of musical form and how it is perceived, the conflict between nature and the artificial and how it related to the breakdown of the tonal system, etc. I can't see this kind of stuff as being much practical use to anyone.

Reply 141

ChemistBoy

Boolean Julian

You'd be suprised how much such things contribute to general knowledge and how that general knowledge is used in decision making by individuals. Our society is informed (even if individuals don't realise it) by the trickle down effects of academic research even to a level of philosophical ideologies, etc.

Reply 142

HCD

ChemistBoy

More that we aren't very good at predicting the future. When presented with the argument that knowledge for knowledge's sake is a frivolous indulgence I am forced to remind everyone about the discovery of the electron, which was deemed for many years to be nothing more than a physical curio of no practical use whatsoever (in fact a sign over J. J. Thompson's lab read: "To the electron: May it never be of use to anyone" - Thompson was distinctly proud of the fact that his discover was "useless"). Now, of course, the electron is at the heart of our modern economy, without it we would be back in the dark ages, so to speak.

Surely, though, that is a prime example of "stumbling across practical stuff on the way"? I probably should have been clearer, though, and your point clarifies where I failed to - that the things we come across in the pursuit of knowledge are potentially practical, or may become practical.

Also, I would argue that Music isn't useless. All that technical music stuff can help to make music "sound better", in sounds engineering or something. Music is a way for people of all disciplines to relax, to enjoy, and can help people to focus on or escape from work. Down a long causal chain, the functional harmony and all that jazz, could help a scientist (or anyone "useful to society") to relax, to help their mental well-being. I'd deem that more useful than, say, someone living off benefits, making no attempt to gain employment, who goes and gets pissed every night.

Reply 143

the_alba

HCD

Music is a way for people of all disciplines to relax, to enjoy, and can help people to focus on or escape from work. Down a long causal chain, the functional harmony and all that jazz, could help a scientist (or anyone "useful to society") to relax, to help their mental well-being. I'd deem that more useful than, say, someone living off benefits, making no attempt to gain employment, who goes and gets pissed every night.

Two words: Ligeti's metronomes. Contemporary composers and music theorists are not particularly interested in 'helping people [even scientists] to relax'. It's all about abstraction, aestheticism, intellectualism, and so on. I personally love this stuff, but I wouldn't expect music threorists and contemporary composers like Knussen, Rihm, Xenakis, Vine etc. to feature in a Naxos Chillout anthology any time soon, and I wouldn't necessarily argue that what they do is helping anybody, but I believe in its worth and value it above more commercial pursuits because that's my particular, not-very-wealth-and-productivity-oriented bent. One of the defining features of the classical music scene today is that it hasn't enjoyed a popular audience since Schoenberg 'wrecked' everything. As things stand now, between George Steiner's hang up about the obscenity of listening to Beethoven over breakfast, and God's gift to musical purist and over-educated loner alike, Radio 3, the truth is that most people aren't even aware that classical music exists outside of 3 minute excerpts from greatest hits cds on the terrible Classic FM. Contemporary classical music is even less listened to than contemporary poetry is read.

I don't really believe that music and poetry is 'useful' to anyone, I don't think it should be, but I'm very glad it's there.

Reply 144

the_alba

Oh, and I know a fair few musicians and writers who are living off benefits - it's hard for them to find gainful employment if that's where their only talent and motivation lies.

Reply 145

Boolean Julian

the_alba I was just about to post something similar :smile:

Similarly, if I wrote a book demonstrating a new way of analysing Beethoven's structures, it might change the way I listen to Beethoven and perhaps the way the few academics who read my book listen to Beethoven, but the vast majority of people are still going to think "hmm Beethoven this sounds nice" and nothing much more complex.

Actually, I would argue that Schoenberg is probably not the best example of an individual to mark as key in the breakdown of tonality and the move away from listener-orientation - but that's a different issue...

Also, even if one were to make a convincing case for any kind of practical relevance of the study of music, my interest in it still remains absolutely self-indulgent and unjustifiable from a utilitarian point of view because my interest in it has nothing whatsoever to do with these practical applications.