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Cambridge Maths Students and Applicants

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Wangers

Its probably only useful (in terms of Cambridge or Warwick) if you take it early - ie L6 or the equivalent, and indeed go on to blitz the paper for a distinction. - That shows you have ability beyond A level and will get your foot in the door as it were. (and in the case of Warwick, (if cambridge isn't meant to be) you've already made half their offer.

My personal take is that there's very little percentage in taking AEA early if you're expecting a STEP offer. Anything less than a distinction will probably count against you, and the maths AEA is actually pretty hard, so a distinction is by no means a certainty (i.e. if you could be confident of getting a distinction in AEA, you'd have a good chance of getting a '1' in STEP, which is probably worth more to Cambridge).

It's also worth noting taking AEA + STEP at the same time is no walk in the park either. AEA is a very different exam from STEP - in particular you have no choice of question, which means preparation for STEP isn't automatically going to help for AEA (and vice-versa).

The only time I'd take AEA + STEP is if you have an offer requiring a '2' in either exam (i.e. standard Warwick offer), because it gives you two bites at the cherry.

Reply 61

HCD

Winter

The massive descriptive questions in Alevel Physics destroy my interest in Physics...
My highest mark was 91% in stage test. I even thought my BPHO result was higher than that....

More maths at degree level. Lots more. :p:

Reply 62

jonnythemoose

DFranklin

Yes, but you're under no obligation to declare an AEA, so it may be worth a shot.

Reply 63

-juice-

One thing to remember is that you are most likely to be asked for 3 A's in the same year - often Cambridge ignore grades you already have, to some extent, concentrating on the ones you are taking in the year prior to applying.

So maybe taking the further maths over year 12-13 would be useful, if you weren't sure about 3 A's in 3 other subjects.

But you sound like a smart one, so maybe you don't need to! XD

Reply 64

Wangers

DFranklin

Sorry, I should have been more clear. You take AEA in the summer of the year you want to apply. Supposing you apply to both Cambridge and Warwick (as most do), the if you do blitz the paper, that will be in time for your application when you send it off that Oct. It follows then that if you are confident of a AEA distinction - you have made the Warwick offer before you applied and have shown Cambridge (for what its worth compared to STEP) that you do have ability. Then you go on to take STEP in the summer of the next year. (I.e. the year you go up) in the usual manner.

Keep in mind though, that whatever grade you do get - you have to declare or face your application being voided.

Reply 65

DFranklin

Wangers

But having looked at them both, I'd say very few people would be able to get an AEA distinction a year earlier than STEP, and of those, pretty well all of them would (a) be outstanding at interview, and (b) have little difficulty getting 11 in STEP the following year.

Basically, my opinion is that the AEA is a lot harder than people in Cambridge tend to assume. So if you're applying to Cambridge, there's a danger that you "can't win" with the AEA. If you get a distinction, it's expected, if you don't, it's a black mark. It's possible the examiners are more clued up than I think, but I wouldn't chance it myself.

I think you have more to gain by looking at STEP early, even if you don't actually take the exam. It is a much better indication of the way the Cambridge lecturers think than the AEA is, so it's good preparation for the interview.

Keep in mind though, that whatever grade you do get - you have to declare or face your application being voided.

That was my assumption, but jonnythemoose says otherwise. I've no idea who's right.

Reply 66

Winter

I'm afraid of AEA now...
since i'm only in L6.
If i failed in step, I would have another year...
but if i failed in aea, it would bring me a big trouble.
that's what you meant , wasn't it?

Reply 67

Echolife

Cexy

Almost all colleges make an offer of at least a grade 1 and a grade 2 in STEP, so it's very important. King's College doesn't include STEP as far as I know.

Kings does include STEP, the only ones that don't are Lucy Cavendish and Hughes Hall, and most applicants to St. Edmunds are asked for STEP. See www.cam.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/requirements/index.html#step

Reply 68

Wangers

DFranklin

Fair enough, I'm not qualified to compare them since I obviously havent sat them both; but looking at STEP II/III, even predicated on the back of an AEA Distinction, 1,1 should not be taken lightly.

In that light then, perphaps treat AEA papers as something to test yourself on when you want something harder (because AEAs in general are hard) rather then take the formal exam? The only other thing I can think of is you might be advantaged if you were in the small minority that can't offer FM.

DFranklin

That was my assumption, but jonnythemoose says otherwise. I've no idea who's right.

From personal experience, don't take any AEA lightly, because you have to decare the result regardless. I had to declare the ones I sat this summer, because its in the same format as a GCSE - ie one shot wonder. You can't not declare (like with ASs) because they're a single stand alone thing and thats it.

Reply 69

Winter

What's the boundary for distinction? 90%?

Reply 70

Hashshashin

Winter

What's the boundary for distinction? 90%?

More like 70%.

Reply 71

Opsimathmo

Can't you ask to have an AEA thingied...You know...thingied...

Reply 72

DFranklin

Wangers

Fair enough, I'm not qualified to compare them since I obviously havent sat them both; but looking at STEP II/III, even predicated on the back of an AEA Distinction, 1,1 should not be taken lightly.

No, but you have an extra year in between, and that counts for a lot I think.

I'd turn it on its head: even predicated on the back of 1,1 in STEP II/III, an AEA distinction should not be taken lightly. Don't forget you have to answer all questions rather than 6 out of 14, and they can be surprisingly hard questions as well. (One year had a question that was basically the same as a previous STEP III question).

In that light then, perphaps treat AEA papers as something to test yourself on when you want something harder (because AEAs in general are hard) rather then take the formal exam?

Thing is, the AEA is different enough in style from STEP (and Cambridge maths) that it probably doesn't help that much. As it's basically "a very hard A-level", it's probably good as prep for getting 95%+ in the A-level, but that's all, I think.

That was my understanding too, but it's good to have confirmation from someone who's been there...

Reply 73

Wangers

DFranklin

Oops, I was under the impression that AEA dosn't cover FM :confused:

Poster above - You mean decline? I'm not sure to be honest, when we entered (or rather when teachers floated the idea and I agreed); I was under the impression that it was a keepsake whatever happened. (Of course this may have been done to encourage preparation). The thing with AEAs is that their format is so different from A level papers that bad planning can seriously curtail performance, that and the fact that they're bastard papers. (especially chemistry)...

Be aware that you have to state all exams being sat on the UCAS form - incl AEAs, it would be sods law if some admissions tutor decided to get innovative. (remember although its rarely done, everything on the UCAS form is fair play for selection).

Reply 74

turgon

I thought AEA only covered C1 - C4 as well...

Reply 75

Kolya

You have both assumed that the STEP III question was on FM material.

Reply 76

nota bene

turgon

I thought AEA only covered C1 - C4 as well...

Yes, but that doesn't mean a STEP III question will require FM, in some cases they don't - which I think was the case here.

Reply 77

Wangers

Lusus Naturae

You have both assumed that the STEP III question was on FM material.

Yes, noting that STEP III required FM, I jumped to this (erroneous) inference :redface:

Reply 78

Zhen Lin

DFranklin

But having looked at them both, I'd say very few people would be able to get an AEA distinction a year earlier than STEP

Hmm, I am inclined to disagree, especially if you are talking about the set of people who do eventually receive a STEP offer. For one thing, AEA assumes only knowledge of C1-C4, which most mathematicians-to-be would have completed in lower 6th or earlier, no? Furthermore only 70% is needed to get a distinction - and overall I thought the paper was quite doable. I even finished my real one (June 2007) with about 15-20 minutes to spare, after panicking a bit over a question. (I believe it involved geometry - blah.)

DFranklin

I'd turn it on its head: even predicated on the back of 1,1 in STEP II/III, an AEA distinction should not be taken lightly. Don't forget you have to answer all questions rather than 6 out of 14, and they can be surprisingly hard questions as well.

Hmmm. Again, I think the paper is designed to take that into account. But I suppose the difficulty of the questions will vary from year to year, and of course, within a single paper as well. I also agree that it's not quite the same style as STEP, but essentially the same skills are required, no? Perseverance, not panicking, and being able to take hints.

Reply 79

Smedwed

I have to say I think AEA can be quite hard, especially as it's often timetabled directly after STEP exams. I left mine after an hour and a half, because my brain couldn't take anymore:P, also as it tends not to matter too much there's much less motivation.

Zhen Lin

For one thing, AEA assumes only knowledge of C1-C4, which most mathematicians-to-be would have completed in lower 6th or earlier, no?

I know it's a bit irrelevant, but I think this depends on the school. Personally I'd only done A/S maths in lower 6th, it was just how my school taught it. How much A level maths you do has no real bearing on if if you're going to study maths well at university.