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The ISLAMIC REPUBLIC of Iran
Hi,
Unfortunately the Snow Iran thread was closed, and I didn't manage to make this point which I'll make in this thread instead.
I heard quite a few people there saying that Iran is led by 'Islamic Fundamentalists' or 'Religious Fundamentalists' and that they wish to visit a 'Liberal Iranian Republic'.
Firstly this idea seems to be exactly what the article is getting at. The Islamic Revolution in Iran in 1979 was a revolution by the masses in Iran. Millions upon millions of people came out into the streets to protest against the US backed dictator, the Shah which eventually led to his toppling.
One of their slogans was 'Not East, Not West, Islamic Republic'
In 1952 Iran had a democratically elected Prime Minister named Mosaddegh, who wanted to nationalise the Iranian Oil Company so as to bring more of the Iranian oil profits for the people. This would have hurt British and American interests in Iran. So they removed this democratically elected Prime Minister in a coup and instead they gave power to the monarchy, ie the Shah, who the people revolted against in 1979. So when America talks of brining freedom and democracy to various countries all over the world, just remember that they removed democracy in Iran and put dictatorship in its place. How would you feel towards America if this was your country?
Shortly after the revolution, there was a referendum (march 30th and 31st). Do you want an Islamic Republic or not?
98.2% voted YES with a huge turnout. This revolution was firstly brought about by the people, and the Islamic Republic was voted in by the people overwhelmingly. So if you believe in the principles of democracy (ie word of the people) you will recognise that the Islamic Republic was wanted and chosen by the Iranian people, regardless of what the west, or anybody else in the world wants to happen in Iran, whether they want a liberal republic or whatever else, this is what the IRANIAN PEOPLE have decided for their own country. What the rest of the world thinks is irrelevant. Of course America and its allies did not want this. Their puppet in Iran had been removed, and now here was a government which was no longer dependent on America for its survival, it can think for itself, act in the interests of the nation it represents, and be independent. And this is what America fears the most, a country that is independent and not subservient to the will of the American government.
In 1980, shortly after the revolution, Saddam Hussain with western backing, invaded Iran, and this led to an 8 year imposed war on Iran. Add the injustice of this war, in which 500,000 Iranians were killed, thousands of them by Saddam's chemical weapons, while the rest of the world watched and funded and armed Saddam, while he was massacring kurds and Iranians a like. How would you feel towards America now?
Since the revolution, almost 3 decades ago now, Iran has been and continues to be under sanction. Iranian planes crash and hundreds of civilains die because Iranian companies are unable to buy spare parts for their American planes (acquired before the revolution). But nevermind, Iran will progress and acquire the skills to make the spare parts itself.
In 2006, the Iranian people overwhelming voted for Dr Ahmadinejad to become president of Iran, in free and fair elections with a high turnout. If you think that the majority of Iranian people are against the Islamic Republic then think again. In the elections they voted for a man who had promised to uphold the values of the revolution, not someone the west would call a reformer.
This revolution and Islamic Republic were not brought about easily. Thousands died along the way, hundreds of thousands in the imposed war. I am not claiming that the Islamic Republic is perfect, no, there are a lot of problems, but gradually they are being resolved, and people's lives are improving. The Islamic Republic is constantly revolving itself towards improvement.
The world should be careful not to make the mistake that the Americans and British made in Iran in 1952 and impose upon Iranians a system of government. The Iranian people have made their choice, and nobody else in the world has the right to try and remove what they struggled and fought to put in place. If they want change, then the Iranian people have shown that they are capable of bringing it about.
Peace Out
Unfortunately the Snow Iran thread was closed, and I didn't manage to make this point which I'll make in this thread instead.
I heard quite a few people there saying that Iran is led by 'Islamic Fundamentalists' or 'Religious Fundamentalists' and that they wish to visit a 'Liberal Iranian Republic'.
Firstly this idea seems to be exactly what the article is getting at. The Islamic Revolution in Iran in 1979 was a revolution by the masses in Iran. Millions upon millions of people came out into the streets to protest against the US backed dictator, the Shah which eventually led to his toppling.
One of their slogans was 'Not East, Not West, Islamic Republic'
In 1952 Iran had a democratically elected Prime Minister named Mosaddegh, who wanted to nationalise the Iranian Oil Company so as to bring more of the Iranian oil profits for the people. This would have hurt British and American interests in Iran. So they removed this democratically elected Prime Minister in a coup and instead they gave power to the monarchy, ie the Shah, who the people revolted against in 1979. So when America talks of brining freedom and democracy to various countries all over the world, just remember that they removed democracy in Iran and put dictatorship in its place. How would you feel towards America if this was your country?
Shortly after the revolution, there was a referendum (march 30th and 31st). Do you want an Islamic Republic or not?
98.2% voted YES with a huge turnout. This revolution was firstly brought about by the people, and the Islamic Republic was voted in by the people overwhelmingly. So if you believe in the principles of democracy (ie word of the people) you will recognise that the Islamic Republic was wanted and chosen by the Iranian people, regardless of what the west, or anybody else in the world wants to happen in Iran, whether they want a liberal republic or whatever else, this is what the IRANIAN PEOPLE have decided for their own country. What the rest of the world thinks is irrelevant. Of course America and its allies did not want this. Their puppet in Iran had been removed, and now here was a government which was no longer dependent on America for its survival, it can think for itself, act in the interests of the nation it represents, and be independent. And this is what America fears the most, a country that is independent and not subservient to the will of the American government.
In 1980, shortly after the revolution, Saddam Hussain with western backing, invaded Iran, and this led to an 8 year imposed war on Iran. Add the injustice of this war, in which 500,000 Iranians were killed, thousands of them by Saddam's chemical weapons, while the rest of the world watched and funded and armed Saddam, while he was massacring kurds and Iranians a like. How would you feel towards America now?
Since the revolution, almost 3 decades ago now, Iran has been and continues to be under sanction. Iranian planes crash and hundreds of civilains die because Iranian companies are unable to buy spare parts for their American planes (acquired before the revolution). But nevermind, Iran will progress and acquire the skills to make the spare parts itself.
In 2006, the Iranian people overwhelming voted for Dr Ahmadinejad to become president of Iran, in free and fair elections with a high turnout. If you think that the majority of Iranian people are against the Islamic Republic then think again. In the elections they voted for a man who had promised to uphold the values of the revolution, not someone the west would call a reformer.
This revolution and Islamic Republic were not brought about easily. Thousands died along the way, hundreds of thousands in the imposed war. I am not claiming that the Islamic Republic is perfect, no, there are a lot of problems, but gradually they are being resolved, and people's lives are improving. The Islamic Republic is constantly revolving itself towards improvement.
The world should be careful not to make the mistake that the Americans and British made in Iran in 1952 and impose upon Iranians a system of government. The Iranian people have made their choice, and nobody else in the world has the right to try and remove what they struggled and fought to put in place. If they want change, then the Iranian people have shown that they are capable of bringing it about.
Peace Out
Scroll to see replies
Iran has not invaded any other country in the last 200 years.
Iran has a policy that it will not attack any other country unless attacked first. This is something that was established in the Revolution.
Tell me, just in the last 7 years, how many countries has Iran invaded and attacked, and how many countries have America and Britian invaded and attacked?
So would you now say that the American people are not peaceful and tolerant since they elected Bush, twice? And we know about his peaceful ways do we not ?
The Iranian people elected Ahmadinejad because he was a man who spoke of justice and equality and the spreading of wealth towards the poor. He appealed to the people because he is of the people. He lives like the people, in an apartment in a poor part of Tehran . When he went into office he asked the lavish rugs to be removed and donated them instead to a mosque. One of the other things he changed was his personal carrier “the President’s Aircraft” to a cargo aircraft in order to save the spending from the public treasury and he ordered that he will be flying with the ordinary airline in the economy class.
That's why they elected him.
Ahmadinejad is not a warmongering person. Please refer to the 'Wiped off the map' misquote of the century thread:
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10506368&post10506368
Iran has a policy that it will not attack any other country unless attacked first. This is something that was established in the Revolution.
Tell me, just in the last 7 years, how many countries has Iran invaded and attacked, and how many countries have America and Britian invaded and attacked?
So would you now say that the American people are not peaceful and tolerant since they elected Bush, twice? And we know about his peaceful ways do we not ?
The Iranian people elected Ahmadinejad because he was a man who spoke of justice and equality and the spreading of wealth towards the poor. He appealed to the people because he is of the people. He lives like the people, in an apartment in a poor part of Tehran . When he went into office he asked the lavish rugs to be removed and donated them instead to a mosque. One of the other things he changed was his personal carrier “the President’s Aircraft” to a cargo aircraft in order to save the spending from the public treasury and he ordered that he will be flying with the ordinary airline in the economy class.
That's why they elected him.
Ahmadinejad is not a warmongering person. Please refer to the 'Wiped off the map' misquote of the century thread:
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10506368&post10506368
Excellent post Revolutionary_Guard, bravo 
Bismarck
How exactly do you reconcile the Iranian people being peaceful and tolerant (your claim from the other thread) with the Iranian people willingly electing Ahmadinejad? 
LOL, Americans really don't recognise irony twice
Revolutionary_Guard
In 2006, the Iranian people overwhelming voted for Dr Ahmadinejad to become president of Iran, in free and fair elections with a high turnout.
To characterise an election where candidates have to be vetted and approved by an unelected Council before they are even allowed to stand, as "free and fair", is ridiculous. A considerable amount of power in Iran is held by completely unelected and unaccountable people and bodies.
And how does any of your rambling refute the fact that the leadership of Iran are "religious fundamentalists"? All you've basically said is that the Iranian people want to be led by religious fundamentalists who believe in forthcoming apocalypse, etc. Which doesn't exactly make me any more fond of the Iranian people.
Oh, and that idiotic "misquote of the century" thread showed absolutely nothing. Indeed, I pointed out just how deceitful the claims of "misquoting" were.
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10511040&postcount=11
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10513721&postcount=22
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10528004&postcount=52
Whether or not Iran's governance is democratic, it is certainly not liberal in its treatment of gays, apostates, underage criminals, the press, Baha'i, prisoners... If this was the choice of the Iranian people, they chose badly.
Just because the US right wing dislikes something doesn't necessarily mean it's good.
Just because the US right wing dislikes something doesn't necessarily mean it's good.
JonathanH
And how does any of your rambling refute the fact that the leadership of Iran are "religious fundamentalists"? All you've basically said is that the Iranian people want to be led by religious fundamentalists who believe in forthcoming apocalypse, etc. Which doesn't exactly make me any more fond of the Iranian people.
Correct me if i'm worng but haven't the Americans also elected a religious fundamentalist... twice i.e. Bush?
Thud
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the bible say that homosexuality is wrong, yet Bush hasn't, to my knowledge at least, ordered the execution of American homosexuals?
As America is a democratic country Bush would have to have that legislation passed not only by people in his cabinet but other parties aswell, and though i seriously doubt he's tried to get a legislation through to permit such a thing if he did it wouldn't be passed and it would be extremely bad press for him.
Anyway the whole point of my statement was to say that people are always going on about how middle eastern countries are electing religious fundamentalists to run their country and how people find it a bad idea yet a religious fundamentalist is running the most powerfull country in the world yet no-one flutters an eyelid.
sTe\/o
I wouldn't call him a fundamentalist, just a bit of a bible basher.
Well i have to use him as an example of a Christian Fundamentalist as he's fusing religion with politics for my sociology exam. So unless my teachers been telling us lies to make us fail our exams i presume Bush is a Christian Fundamentalist.
Lou76854
As America is a democratic country Bush would have to have that legislation passed not only by people in his cabinet but other parties aswell, and though i seriously doubt he's tried to get a legislation through to permit such a thing if he did it wouldn't be passed and it would be extremely bad press for him.
Anyway the whole point of my statement was to say that people are always going on about how middle eastern countries are electing religious fundamentalists to run their country and how people find it a bad idea yet a religious fundamentalist is running the most powerfull country in the world yet no-one flutters an eyelid.
Anyway the whole point of my statement was to say that people are always going on about how middle eastern countries are electing religious fundamentalists to run their country and how people find it a bad idea yet a religious fundamentalist is running the most powerfull country in the world yet no-one flutters an eyelid.
His cabinet can't do anything... they are simply advisers. I seriously doubt "bad press" is the reason Bush doesn't order all homosexuals in America to be killed...
Which mainstream Christian fundamentalist group calls for the execution of homosexuals?
I don't think people are criticising people electing religious people I think they criticise that the 10 most religious people in the country stand for election and people being told to choose between them (3000 being banned last year for various reasons). Secondly, whilst Bush might be a christian, he is not implementing fundamentalist christian law according to the bible, which is quite unlike many middle eastern countries. How many people are killed in America for adultery?
Lou76854
As America is a democratic country Bush would have to have that legislation passed not only by people in his cabinet but other parties aswell, and though i seriously doubt he's tried to get a legislation through to permit such a thing if he did it wouldn't be passed and it would be extremely bad press for him.
Anyway the whole point of my statement was to say that people are always going on about how middle eastern countries are electing religious fundamentalists to run their country and how people find it a bad idea yet a religious fundamentalist is running the most powerfull country in the world yet no-one flutters an eyelid.
Anyway the whole point of my statement was to say that people are always going on about how middle eastern countries are electing religious fundamentalists to run their country and how people find it a bad idea yet a religious fundamentalist is running the most powerfull country in the world yet no-one flutters an eyelid.
That's because they're incomparable in terms of their beliefs.
Several Middle Eastern governments have theocratic, fundamentalist governments which systematically impose illiberal religious governance in a variety of ways. The US does not. That's the difference.
Whatever Bush's beliefs, he is to a great degree unwilling or unable to foist them on the nation as a whole.
The fundamentalist character of Iran's Supreme Leader and Assembly of Experts probably has more effect on the country's domestic governance anyway.
What is Revolutionary_Guard's take on Ahmadinejad's Holocaust denial?
Whatever Bush's beliefs, he is to a great degree unwilling or unable to foist them on the nation as a whole.
The fundamentalist character of Iran's Supreme Leader and Assembly of Experts probably has more effect on the country's domestic governance anyway.
What is Revolutionary_Guard's take on Ahmadinejad's Holocaust denial?
Lou76854
Well i have to use him as an example of a Christian fundamentalist as he's fusing religion with politics for my sociology exam. So unless my teachers been telling us lies to make us fail our exams i presume Bush is a Christian fundamentalist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etmoWcwKcnc&feature=related
P.S. Don't get the impression that I like Bush.
I don't particularly support their government because i don't believe a country should be run on religious ideals, but compared to what Iran used to be before Ahmadinejad i think its quite a large step forwards towards there being a total democratic government in place and hopefully one day, though i doubt it'll happen in the near future , the state will not be run by a religious fundamentalist and the Shirah law will be abolished.
Revolutionary_Guard
In 1952 Iran had a democratically elected Prime Minister named Mosaddegh, who wanted to nationalise the Iranian Oil Company so as to bring more of the Iranian oil profits for the people. This would have hurt British and American interests in Iran.
This is what we call 'theft' - trying to steal the property of foreigners, combined with cosying up to the Reds, rarely wins you friends.
Moreover, if it wasn't Britain or America who unseated the PM, it was the Shah - in exercise of his constitutional powers.
How would you feel towards America if this was your country?
I'd probably approve of the Queen removing Gordon Brown if he tried to steal American property.
98.2% voted YES with a huge turnout.
That sounds suspicious.
This revolution was firstly brought about by the people, and the Islamic Republic was voted in by the people overwhelmingly. So if you believe in the principles of democracy (ie word of the people) you will recognise that the Islamic Republic was wanted and chosen by the Iranian people
No amount of democracy gives a state the right to oppress any number of its citizens. I'd assume that much would be obvious to anybody.
The majority of the people wanted it, not all the people; and to suggest that an Islamic Republic automatically implies what is now in Iran is nonsense.
What the rest of the world thinks is irrelevant.
Yes, tell that to the Americans when the tanks roll in...
The Iranian people have made their choice, and nobody else in the world has the right to try and remove what they struggled and fought to put in place.
Ideologically, I disagree entirely with that.
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