Doctors Commissioned but not Nurses??

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This is a really really old thread. And i am a bit tipsy, but.. ultimately patients care is under the final decision of a consultant/GP.

Qualified Nurses enter their first RAF posting with the rank of acting Cpl, full Cpl after 1 year.

I wrote that quoted post when i knew nothing about commissions etc really.

Hope that clears things up?

x

Reply 101

RAF_Nurse!

Blimey! Is this still draggin' on!!?
...

Nurses are no longer time promoted to Sgt, but are Acting paid Cpl's after they complete nurse training for Student Staff Nurse entrants, or after Basic Training for Direct entrants (civvy trained). JMLC & TMT1 usually get offered around a year later, if the individuals' line management & OCNW feel they are sufficiently prepared / likely to make the grade. I have met/worked with quite a few JNCO Nurses who were 'eligible' for time prom to Sgt only to be denied it due to 'bad admin' (cr*p JNCO's and/or nurses).

The bad news is (i would take an informed guess-hasn't really happened yet) that merit promotion for a very good Cpl, who 'ticks all the boxes', does community/secondary duties, etc (stands out from peers) has got to be about an 8-10 year wait!

On the last Sgt-FS Promotion Board there were 65 'A-class', 0 'B-class' and 30ish 'C-class' candidates with only 2 FS slots needing filling, meaning Sgt to FS is currently a further 10 year wait (on average) for excellent candidates.....meaning 18-20 years Service for those joining/qualifying now until they make FS.....very poor promotion prospects indeed for Professionals with Degree's, etc.

Army nurses seem to have much quicker promotion prospects (years shorter at all ranks).

There is still no word on Specialist pay from the MOD (most likely for A&E, ITU, O/Th specialities) where you might continue to receive annual pay rises to remain current (deployable) in that speciality, even after reaching the top of your particular ranks' increments but without promotion (this was one idea).

The FRI (financial retention incentive) of £20K (2x £10K payments split by a 3 year ROS) seems to have been a bit of a failure TBH, with ony a few people signing up.

Oh, and in case you wondered!...
Promotion to S/L is currently around the 7-10 years in F/L rank for PMRAFNS Nursing Officers (not really any better) as this element of time prom went too.

Bleak times. Which way to the NHS?

Reply 102

KenHall06

Wzz, you have quite a lot to say for yourself which is good! I take it you haven't got a clue what a radiographer does or any the responsibilities that come with being a radiographer. The Radiography Officer role is currently being look at in the UK Military for the Regulars. As its currently adopted by our NATO partners and in Australia. Where the role of the Radiographer is that of an Officer!!

I agree with some of what you said however comparing my profession to some quick fit techs is well offensive, to say the least. All I can say is well at least I don’t wipe peoples arses for a living!. If you hadn't noticed the Dr's of the armed forces don't really have much say in the stuff your talking about as this is undertaken by Medical Support Officers (MSO'S). As for Nursing officer well, like most nurses I see why you have this opinion. I put it down to education of Student nurses and well bloodymindness of the qualified ones who's understanding of other healthcare professionals roles is well absent!. I know this as I’ve been in theatre a number of time and it always the nurse who walks around without a lead coat!

Radiographers both of the NHS & Military both have training and management skills that far out way the nurses bit like the Physios do. I think its gets bad when at Undergraduate level the Student Radiographer is far more advanced that the student nurse. The stuff you have wrote on here and have been fed is utter trash! I can tell you have been fed some recruitment *****, just to what get you to sign.

As for rank structure medics within all three services get faster promotion that all the other trades within the armed forces this is due to the nature of there jobs and the most advanced training then the most applicable rank reflex’s this. As for the role of Dr & Radiographer are far removed well they are to some points, however without us radiographers I’d put money on the fact they aint got a clue what they are looking at and besides why do they need a commission just like the nurse, Physio ???. Also there is a lack of radiologists within the UK on a whole. The radiographer now under agenda for change within NHS hospitals (which the military are in when not deployed, work in) are currently taking up Consultant Radiographer roles in specialist Areas such as CT, MRI and Accident & Emergency Radiology. I'm sure if a cocky jumped up Nursing officer o Doctor tried to belittle one of these they would so get a slap and told to Foxtrot Oscar!

However, I don't wish to get into argument with you however comments like this annoy me as it shows complete lack of understanding of both the military and of other Healthcare Professions. I will say that when radiographers are finally given officer ranks within the Regulars as it will happen! Then our role will be a more clinical one, as currently when on operation the Radiographer currently runs there own department now tell me do these tornado sooty’s do this??

Reply 103

NFI

For a serving officer your use of the English language is utter bat poo.

Reply 104

naananna

This is coming from a person who has had some medical and nurse training. nurses and doctors both have caring roles, and very valid roles. It's a general perception that doctors have the harder role but coming from someone who has done both this is not always the case. a nurse has to look for symptoms, give the medications, care, wash and reassure the person, explain the symtpoms to the patient- and generally do this for possibly 10, 20 other patients simultaneously.
Without the nurse the doctor generally doesn't find out the patients symptoms, there are no charts recording blood pressures, bm's, fluid consummed. doctors cannot do their job effectively without nurses, as they won't have the information about the patient to base their decisions on.
In fact on the wards the amount of times i have seen doctors being bleeped just to prescribe a drug the nurses knew the patient would be given anyway, far exceeds the amount of times i have seen a nurse just there to support a doctor- it can sometimes feel the other way round- that doctors are there to support nurses. :P

however, without the doctor there would be no full medical knowledge to make sure the treatement wasn't harmful, the diagnostic measures couldn't be made, a nurse doesn't have the chemical knowledge of the drugs mechanisms- just the symptoms, dose and effects, which could mean they dont know if the drug would interact with another drug, possibly to create a harmful substance.

they work together- compliment each other. andf to try to put more validity onto one role than the other is wrong- they are both needed.
However, with comission there is the issue of the role that will be played by the commissioned nurse and doctor. Is there the need for as many comissioned nurses as there are nurses capable of doing that role? and the same for doctors. But does a nurses role deserve to be a comissionned role even without being a managerial role? I don't know- i'm not in the services.