"Cambridge vs. Cardiff" (tricky situation)

Hey guys,

I have a bit of a problem regarding my applications. I've applied this year for deferred entry to study Japanese/Spanish, and have received 4 offers. Without wishing to go into much, and without wanting to sound arrogant/boastful, these offers have been decidedly low for me; I've been predicted AAA and my firm choice would be for 300 points. None of the universities I applied to are particularly high up the league tables for Spanish, so I'm thinking I might drop the Japanese and do a single Spanish course. This I have to decide by myself though.

Say hypothetically I'm now aiming for a Spanish course. Let's tackle the big issue first: I'm thinking of applying to Cambridge. The problem is, I didn't attend any of the Oxbridge meetings/discussions at my school and so I know just about nothing on what I need in order to apply. So as far as I know, the following may be problematic points:
1) I have retaken 5 modules. I improved greatly on three of them, improved by 1 mark on one, and didn't do so great on the other. I don't know the Cambridge views on retaking, specifically when you do worse the second time around.
2) I heard that you need to declare all of your module marks from AS and A2. I declined my Maths AS for which I received a D, would I need to show this in my application? Other than that, my other module marks range from high As to high Bs, would these Bs be a problem?
3) My GCSEs weren't amazing. 3 A*, 4 A and 3 B. I don't exactly know if this is a problem, but the 4 students who got into Oxbridge for 2008 in my year pretty much got all As and A*s.
4) I have no sporting activities to my name, nor any educational extra-curricular achievements or music certificates. I'm pretty much a solely academic student.

Now another pretty big issue I have is that next year I will be in Japan, and so I'm wondering if I were to apply for Spanish, and I got into a position where I would be offered one, would I need to have an interview? It would cost some £800 for a return flight back to England, and if I go all that way and stuff it up, it'd be a colossal waste of money. So generally speaking, would I really need to be in England for a period of time to attend open days/interviews, considering I'd be 12000 miles away?

These are the only issues that spring to mind at the moment, though I'm sure there are more. My basic decision seems to be, do I play it safe and simply overachieve for Cardiff, or do I reject all 4 offers from this year and reapply for just Spanish to universities higher up the league tables?

(P.S., I want to make some apologies. It may look like I'm being arrogant or big-headed at times, and I truly don't mean to be. The whole reason I never applied to Cambridge this year was that I never thought I'd achieve the 3 As I was predicted, however with the January module results it looks like it's now possible and I don't want to pass up the opportunity.
Also, I'm sorry for seeming so utterly clueless about Cambridge rules and application procedure, it's just due to the aforementioned reasons I didn't bother attending various meetings held at my school to inform Oxbridge hopefuls about how to apply.
Finally, I apologise if I am believing that Cambridge demands a lot more from students than it does, it's just that the people who received offers in my year are very hard working students who have gained excellent marks throughout secondary school.)

Reply 1

laur*

Gtpod

Finally, I apologise if I am believing that Cambridge demands a lot more from students than it does

actually, i think you've got it the other way round.

people with straight a's, even staight a*'s at gcse, straight a's at as and a level are often unsuccessful when applying to cambridge.

to put it plainly, your grades don't seem good enough. i think they'd see your as/a levels as a bit of a mess...

well done with all your offers though. you should be happy with them.

Reply 2

Reblet

12

Slightly harsh laur*.... All I'm going to say is you're better off looking at Cambridge rather than Oxford as they interview more folk (i.e. I didn't get an interview for Ox and neither did our dep head girl AKA genius girl haha).
BUT if you interview very well, have a PS to die for and get an awesome reference then you might stand a chance. Just be aware of your realistic chances. But if you really want to have a crack, then go for it.

But I'd be inclined to still with the great offer you have. Just an opinion though. Best of luck. :biggrin:

Reply 3

laur*

i'm not being harsh i'm just being honest, i'm not going to sugarcoat anything- we're all grown ups.

incidently...i just happen to live in cambridge, i don't study here, so don't think i'm being all high and mighty...

Reply 4

Gtpod

OP

No, this is exactly what I wanted really, honest responses about my chances. I never aimed so high at the start of sixth form so I'm really seeing if there's anything I can do about that now. The last thing I want is to get AAA in the summer to accept BBB offers, it'd just seem like a waste of my time, if you get what I mean...

So it's the declaration of AS/A-Level modules that'll mainly trip me up? Would I have to mention the Maths? Other than that, I currently have two modules at B and the rest (8) are A, and have no reason to doubt the rest of them following the same pattern, if not better (definitely better, if this can all be worked out).

Also, if I were to deny all my offers this year, would I be able to use one next year as insurance?

Reply 5

hobnob

14

So basically what you're saying is that you'd have been perfectly happy with Cardiff if they had given you an AAA offer, so you wouldn't have felt you were selling yourself short? :confused:

Reply 6

Gtpod

OP

^ Not really, Cardiff is 17th in the league tables for Modern Languages. My problem is that due to my wanting to study Spanish/Japanese, I couldn't aim high enough for the Spanish since barely any universities offer the course. I need advice on deciding whether or not to apply for the top 5 Modern Languages unis (Cambridge, St. Andrews, Kings, Nottingham and Bath, as far as I know) or stick with what I've got.

Reply 7

Chemical_Scum

14

"No, this is exactly what I wanted really, honest responses about my chances. I never aimed so high at the start of sixth form so I'm really seeing if there's anything I can do about that now. The last thing I want is to get AAA in the summer to accept BBB offers, it'd just seem like a waste of my time, if you get what I mean..."

lol i cant say that i do...but i know this: such an attitude is not shared by the "academic elite". i really don't know why you want to go to cambridge based on what iv seen though i think its pretty fair to say you want the name behind you?seriously though the above attitude is exactly what they dont want and its part of why they interview. im not usually this mean and judgemental mate but really i dont think you should be looking at cambridge unless you change youre attitude towards youre subjects.

Reply 8

Gtpod

OP

^ But this is exactly what I am doing; I love Spanish and have only recently realised I'm lowering my chances of the best possible education in it by combining it with Japanese. I'm not wanting to apply to Cambridge because of how it's seen, but because it's consistently top of the league tables for Modern Languages. I would have applied this year if a) they offered the course I wanted at the time and b) if I at all thought I had a chance of getting in.

Reply 9

nataloulou

come to Cardiff. will be much much more fun. You might even get to meet me!

Reply 10

l'Historien

You seem to be doubting Cardiff, so reapplying could be the best option. Even if you don't get in at Cambridge (still apply for the experience and to see how it goes), you will be able to apply to places you really want to go. You could even reapply to Cardiff as a back-up!

The interview situation may be a problem - email the Languages department or college you are thinking of applying to at Cambridge to find out their view on interview options.

Considering you're applying for deferred entry and have a gap year sorted, you won't lose anything by reapplying I'm sure. With AAA or a bit less, you've got a great chance of getting into one of the top unis for languages in the country (eg. UCL, Durham, etc).

Reply 11

hobnob

14

Gtpod

^ Not really, Cardiff is 17th in the league tables for Modern Languages. My problem is that due to my wanting to study Spanish/Japanese, I couldn't aim high enough for the Spanish since barely any universities offer the course. I need advice on deciding whether or not to apply for the top 5 Modern Languages unis (Cambridge, St. Andrews, Kings, Nottingham and Bath, as far as I know) or stick with what I've got.

Leaving league tables aside for the moment, do you actually like Cardiff (i.e. does the course look interesting, did you like the university and the facilities it offers, can you imagine yourself living in Cardiff for three years, etc)?

Reply 12

Greatleysteg

19

Gtpod

^ Not really, Cardiff is 17th in the league tables for Modern Languages. My problem is that due to my wanting to study Spanish/Japanese, I couldn't aim high enough for the Spanish since barely any universities offer the course. I need advice on deciding whether or not to apply for the top 5 Modern Languages unis (Cambridge, St. Andrews, Kings, Nottingham and Bath, as far as I know) or stick with what I've got.

Call me stupid, but I'd say Oxford's a top 5 Modern Languages uni... even if you can't apply there as well as Cambridge.

Reply 13

Gtpod

OP

hobnob

Leaving league tables aside for the moment, do you actually like Cardiff (i.e. does the course look interesting, did you like the university and the facilities it offers, can you imagine yourself living in Cardiff for three years, etc)?

Yeah, I really like it there actually, I'm supposed to be going to a post-offer open day in a couple of weeks. It's a great city. However, when considering university applications, the only thing that matters to me is the standard of education. I could live anywhere to be quite honest; city centre, middle of nowhere, campus, it doesn't matter to me nearly as much as the actual learning I'll be doing. I've never been there myself, but Cambridge's grounds look equally appealing, I'm sure I'd be happy location-wise at both.

l'Historien

You seem to be doubting Cardiff, so reapplying could be the best option. Even if you don't get in at Cambridge (still apply for the experience and to see how it goes), you will be able to apply to places you really want to go. You could even reapply to Cardiff as a back-up!

The interview situation may be a problem - email the Languages department or college you are thinking of applying to at Cambridge to find out their view on interview options.

Considering you're applying for deferred entry and have a gap year sorted, you won't lose anything by reapplying I'm sure. With AAA or a bit less, you've got a great chance of getting into one of the top unis for languages in the country (eg. UCL, Durham, etc).

Yeah, see I really don't want to regret never trying for higher unis in the future... I love UCL, visited many times before I included Japanese in my thinking, it'd be great to put that down as my second choice to Cambridge.

Call me stupid, but I'd say Oxford's a top 5 Modern Languages uni... even if you can't apply there as well as Cambridge.

That's why I left it out. :wink:

Out of the two, I'd prefer to apply to Cambridge really, for various reasons.

Reply 14

hobnob

14

Gtpod

Yeah, I really like it there actually, I'm supposed to be going to a post-offer open day in a couple of weeks. It's a great city. However, when considering university applications, the only thing that matters to me is the standard of education. I could live anywhere to be quite honest; city centre, middle of nowhere, campus, it doesn't matter to me nearly as much as the actual learning I'll be doing. I've never been there myself, but Cambridge's grounds look equally appealing, I'm sure I'd be happy location-wise at both.

The reason why I'm asking is because league tables aren't necessarily particularly good at measuring the standard of education you're going to get there. There may be a number of reasons why Cardiff didn't rank as highly as you would have liked it to, and quite a few of them won't actually affect the quality of your degree. Depending on the factors which the league tables you looked at take into account, Cardiff may have lost points because (to mention just a few of the more common league table criteria):

•

the overall percentage of people who end up with a first or 2.1 is lower -> keep in mind, though, that this doesn't affect your chances of getting one; if you're a good student, going to Cardiff isn't going to make you thicker than going to a place which has a higher percentage of "good honours"

•

the spend per student score is lower -> obviously it's nice if a university spends a lot of money on facilities for students, but league tables don't contain a detailed list of what that money was spent on. Not all of the spending taken into account in the data from which the table was compiled will actually benefit you. So you may be no worse off at Cardiff than at a place which spent a lot of money on something that won't benefit you anyway.

•

entry scores are lower -> again, being around students who didn't all get three As for their A-levels won't automatically make you stupid (and they needn't be stupid either). If you're a good motivated student who's willing to put in a bit of effort if necessary, there's no reason why you shouldn't do well and get a lot out of the course.

•

lower RAE scores -> those scores are old and may well be no longer accurate. Besides, the fact that there is cutting-edge research going on at a university won't necessarily affect the quality of its undergraduate courses, because undergraduate courses don't usually deal with cutting-edge research. To put it crudely, you don't need brilliant researchers to provide students with undergraduate degrees that are of a high standard (not to mention that brilliant researchers don't always make the best teachers). If there are several brilliant lecturers at your university doing groundbreaking research on some highly specific aspect of modern Greek, the etymology of Finnish loan words or bilinguality in 18th-century Holland, it might improve the university's RAE score, but it would hardly affect you if you're doing Japanese and Spanish. As a matter of fact, it probably wouldn't affect you even if you were studying Greek, Finnish or Dutch, because highly specialised research isn't really the sort of thing covered in undergraduate degrees.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to talk you out of reapplying, but maybe you should take some time to reassess the criteria that seem to devalue Cardiff so much in your opinion. :dontknow:

Obviously it would be different if you found the thought of going to Cardiff unbearable, but do you really want to turn down an offer for a place you'd probably be quite happy with and take a gap year, for the mere possibility of getting a place at a university where you think you might end up getting a better education, keeping in mind that the odds will be against you?

Reply 15

Gtpod

OP

^ Well this is why I was interested in whether or not I could reapply to Cardiff next year if I deny it this time around. Would it lower my chances of having it as an insurance choice next year?

Reply 16

βored

14

If you decline Cardiff this year then you have just as much chance of getting an offer in the next cycle.

They won't care or even remember if you reject them.

Reply 17

Good bloke

19

Gtpod

2) I heard that you need to declare all of your module marks from AS and A2. I declined my Maths AS for which I received a D, would I need to show this in my application? Other than that, my other module marks range from high As to high Bs, would these Bs be a problem?

If you understand the statement in magenta (which is correct, by the way), why do you need to ask the question in red?

For Cambridge you have to declare all your module UMS scores, even failures and re-sits. And, yes, B grades should essentially be regarded as standing for blot: they may not harm your application, but they will not impress the admissions tutors.

Reply 18

Purple

15

You would always be able to study japanese as an extra course at uni if they offer language classes.

Also, if you're going to be reapplying for spanish, then wouldn't a year in spain be a better option :p:

and then it would be cheaper to get back for interviews.

Reply 19

Lothar

Correct me if I'm wrong, but whatever you choose to do atm you're looking at spending the next year in Japan? Does this mean you're looking at becoming fluent in Japanese? Because if so then I imagine that that'll be a huge plus point if you're applying to do East Asian studies at Cambridge (which incidentally I know you can combine with some modern languages, so worth checking out if Spanish is one of them). Your grades aren't the highest possible, but AAA is certainly high, and if not Cambridge you surely have a chance of getting into one of the top unis.

If you decide to reapply, and I think you might as well if you're definitely taking a year out, then don't bypass Oxbridge on the basis that you don't know much about it. You don't need to attend any open day, and it's worth ringing up to see whether or not you could conduct an interview over the phone if you're going to be abroad in december.

"Cambridge vs. Cardiff" (tricky situation)

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