My problem with China is nothing Political tbh. The problem is I'm Indian so we hate each other anyways.
Yeah, well, we have nothing to do with China. China is economically capitalist with a tyrannical political system. We're economically socialist, but with freedom on our lips. (Though illiterate Tories accuse us of being totalitarian.)
Does the Labour Party accept that the invasion of Iraq has resulted in an increased threat of terrorism? And what does the Labour Party intend on doing as a result of that?
What is the single biggest regret of the Labour Party, in terms of the home affairs?
EDIT: changed "iraq" to "Iraq"
Last edited by Lord Hysteria : 26-03-2008 at 19:42.
What are you doing in relation to Darfur? (useless UN resolutions aside)
Yes, let me echo this. I'd be very interested to hear how TSR Labour justifies Iraq whilst not getting involved into Darfur where genocide is occuring.
In Iraq we were certain that weapons were there and we were heavily pressured by the US to go and remove the dictatorial government in power. In doing so we have made many mistakes yet the situation there for most has improved greatly.
In Darfur, the situation is one that can be spoken of everywhere in Africa. If we decide to aid/invade Darfur, people will pressure to invade Zimbabwe and so on. This is a situation for the UN to handle however with Iran taking up most of the UN's time the resolve will come slowly.
From my understanding of clause IV it was changed in 1993 from
"To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service."
to
"The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It believes that by the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone, so as to create for each of us the means to realise our true potential and for all of us a community in which power, wealth and opportunity are in the hands of the many, not the few, where the rights we enjoy reflect the duties we owe, and where we live together, freely, in a spirit of solidarity, tolerance and respect"
Personally the second and newer version is the one that it most similar to my personal beliefs.
In Iraq we were certain that weapons were there and we were heavily pressured by the US to go and remove the dictatorial government in power. In doing so we have made many mistakes yet the situation there for most has improved greatly.
In Darfur, the situation is one that can be spoken of everywhere in Africa. If we decide to aid/invade Darfur, people will pressure to invade Zimbabwe and so on. This is a situation for the UN to handle however with Iran taking up most of the UN's time the resolve will come slowly.
I personally agree with your second point. However, no one is talking about invading them but instead exerting as much pressure as we can on them to stop these atrocities. I think he best bet would be to engage other African leaders and change their attitudes towards Africa foriegn policy. At the moment they will support any other fellow African president such as South Africa suporting Mugabe. If the UK and other nations exert their presussure on places like South Africa and Nigeria they may have a positive affect.
In Darfur, the situation is one that can be spoken of everywhere in Africa. If we decide to aid/invade Darfur, people will pressure to invade Zimbabwe and so on. This is a situation for the UN to handle however with Iran taking up most of the UN's time the resolve will come slowly.
So in the meantime we just sit around twiddling our thumbs allow genocide to happen!? For God's sake! We're not simply talking about a corrupt government or inflation or poverty, we're talking about masses of people being needlessly slaughtered!!
We have a moral responsibility to interfere! It is ridiculous that we do nothing simply because the UN is busy with other things and because other countries may ask for help! Just because we interfere with one country does not mean that we are obliged to do the same with others.
From my understanding of clause IV it was changed in 1993 from
"To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service."
to
"The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It believes that by the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone, so as to create for each of us the means to realise our true potential and for all of us a community in which power, wealth and opportunity are in the hands of the many, not the few, where the rights we enjoy reflect the duties we owe, and where we live together, freely, in a spirit of solidarity, tolerance and respect"
Personally the second and newer version is the one that it most similar to my personal beliefs.
Is that what you were getting at?
Kinda - my point was more along the lines of 'Should it be a long-term aim of the party to secure the means of production in the hands of the collective ownership of the workers?'
In Iraq we were certain that weapons were there and we were heavily pressured by the US to go and remove the dictatorial government in power. In doing so we have made many mistakes yet the situation there for most has improved greatly.
It is a shame none of the more avid TSR Labour could assist you here.
But could you indulge me in a little tearing-the-meat-of-the-bones, so to speak, but you didn't answer my questions, intentionally or accidently, I ask them again with a few more in response to your comment:
Does the Labour Party accept that the invasion of Iraq has resulted in an increased threat of terrorism? And what does the Labour Party intend on doing as a result of that?
What is the single biggest regret of the Labour Party, in terms of the home affairs?
To what extent does the Labour Party consider the importance of such a 'relationship' with the US, considering the effects it has had?
Your vague response may need clarification for me (see italics), but in what sense has there been an improvement in the situation in Iraq? Is there not an internal 'war' between Shea and Sunni?
What real and substantial threat did Iraq pose to the UK, that justified our invasion of Iraq?
Regards
Lord Hysteria
Last edited by Lord Hysteria : 26-03-2008 at 20:00.
So in the meantime we just sit around twiddling our thumbs allow genocide to happen!? For God's sake! We're not simply talking about a corrupt government or inflation or poverty, we're talking about masses of people being needlessly slaughtered!!
We have a moral responsibility to interfere! It is ridiculous that we do nothing simply because the UN is busy with other things and because other countries may ask for help! Just because we interfere with one country does not mean that we are obliged to do the same with others.
Firstly responding to someone else above this post: Yes, applying Pressure is all good and well, have you ever tried pressurising someone who has Mugabe next to him??? Pressure has been apllied for the last 10 years to these African countries and as yet, no avail has come from it. The bettermore sensible option is to let the UN apply embargo's and other warnings against the country however Mugabe's regime is not going to end ths way. I believe, as Labour have done for many years, the whole world must come togetherand crush down the dirst that is Mugabe together: Politically, not with Force.
As to this post quoted above, well yeah we do have a moral responsibility but going in all guns blazing will solve nothing. More people will die and there is enough poverty/famine in the area as it is. In my opinion, people have to keep patient over these inhumane crusades occurring in Africa. The situation will be resolved, not by fighting the militia of 5 countries at once, but by changin the atmsphere and political sense in those countries. The people there need to be taught and aided to sense: not tortured or killed to sense.
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