Results are out! Find what you need...fast. Get quick advice or join the chat
Hey there Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Anti - islam video. I hate to say it, but it has a point.

Announcements Posted on
Got a question about Student Finance? Ask the experts this week on TSR! 14-09-2014
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Nice to see that the video starts of with apparently a page in in the quran having a picture of a guy with a bomb. :rolleyes: This isnt going to be biased is it?

    Lets move onto the first quote:

    1008.058: And if you fear treachery on the part of a people, then throw back to them on terms of equality; surely Allah does not love the treacherous.

    008.060: And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to frighten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them, whom you do not know (but) Allah knows them; and whatever thing you will spend in Allah's way, it will be paid back to you fully and you shall not be dealt with unjustly.

    008.061: And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing.

    008.062: And if they intend to deceive you-- then surely Allah is sufficient for you; He it is Who strengthened you with His help and with the believers


    Clearly this is stating some kind of rule of engagement. This is up to a lot of interpretation. What is treachery? To what degree is a war justified?

    The video then shows the september 11th attacks. I mean thats obviously not there to get an emotional and irrational reaction :rolleyes: .

    Then they show an extremist preacher.

    Next quote:

    2

    004.054: Or do they envy the people for what Allah has given them of His grace? But indeed We have given to Ibrahim's children the Book and the wisdom, and We have given them a grand kingdom.

    004.055: So of them is he who believes in him, and of them is he who turns away from him, and hell is sufficient to burn.

    004.056: (As for) those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.

    004.057: And (as for) those who believe and do good deeds, We will make them enter gardens beneath which rivers flow, to abide in them for ever; they shall have therein pure mates, and We shall make them enter a dense shade.



    Yes contrasting heaven and hell. Dont see how this relevant to an anti-semitic preacher.

    Then they show a 3 1/2 year old girl calling jews apes and pigs. Again, this is ridiculous simply because her age, and it becomes clear that most of this video is based on anti-israeli sentiment which exists predominantly in palestine.

    At this point i quit.
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    I'm tired of religious debates, it only causes friction between different religious groups. Everyone's entitled to an opinion, whether you believe in it or not..
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Religion should be debated otherwise we'll never get anywhere, it'll just be more stereotyping of eastern people, and more beheadings of journalists. The problem is that the Islamic faith leaders do not agree that everyone is entiteled to an opinion when it comes to their religion.
    • 8 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by pretz)
    I am telling you that because most people in the West are not religious and so people who judge Islam to be a threat to secularism and liberalism are not judging Islam from a Christian viewpoint but from a liberal, secular perspective. Which is why verses from the bible that could be considered as extreme as some in the Qu'ran really are irrelevant.
    Right, now I understand. But they should then judge the Bible equally.

    (Original post by miki_da_magpie)
    Thanks for joining me nish Unfortunately, you are the kind of muslim that (i think) is very similar to the muslim friends I have.
    Hi and, glad to hear it..I think


    (Original post by miki_da_magpie)
    Also unforunately is, that you are in the VAST minority, as you are schooled, and have actually been integrated in the western way of living (thus also of thinking). The biggest problem is that the Muslim faith is so strong and religiously extreme in countries where the people are not so.
    You're probably right about the middle-eastern countries. However, I live in tanzania where a large part of the population is muslims, and would agree 100% with what I've said..they wouldn't consider it something to debate, just a fact of life really. So there are many other muslims who are integrated into the west, (see Ismailis [I'm an ismaili muslim ] in canada, they've integrated well). although we may still be in the minority granted.

    (Original post by miki_da_magpie)
    Im quite sure that many of those would feel that by placing the laws of a western country that does not conform to islamic law, you are selling out on your religion and are not a true believer (you are put with the rest of us). Im not saying you are, and I have no proof that others do, but that is the way I have come to understand most people of the muslim faith, and how many people do as well.
    This may be true, although the muslims that I know would not; I can't speak for other muslims. the fact is, if they live in a country they agree to abide by that country's laws - otherwise they should get out of that country and go to somewhere more favourable. anyway, I think we agree on this point

    (Original post by miki_da_magpie)
    I agree that other faiths have just as badly worded documents (im an atheist so im biased) and most of those (christianity) have violent and totally unacceptable pasts as well! This is exactly why the Islamic faith should be open for discussion so we can end the violence in the way that the christian faith and its relation to violence has also stopped (but that took centuries).
    I agree with you up to here.

    (Original post by miki_da_magpie)
    I disagree however, in you saying that the Quran is not to blame for the inability of people to integrate. I think that there are certain parts of the Quran which should be removed because they are prone to the wrong interpretation (which we all know about), and that if the muslim faith truly wanted to integrate, then it should clean up its act.
    But didn't the Christians clean up their act, (like you said right before this) without having to change wording of the Bible?
    My belief is that the inability of islam to integrate is not very much to do with the Qu'ran, and more to do with the mindset of the Muslims. Firstly, I doubt many religions would agree to change the words in their holy books, (just my personal opinion), least of all Muslims; not that this is right, it's just why it would be an ineffective approach. And even if the words were changed, the mindset would remain, and be passed down through families; I think better would be to get muslims to see why they should not take the Qu'ran literally.
    To put it another way, deal with the people themselves, not with the holy book - my view.

    (Original post by miki_da_magpie)
    There is no denying that it is/will be the greatest followed fiath of the world very soon, but it should try to distance itself from most of the things going on at the moment, and the only way this is possible is by reform, which the Islam would never allow. Therefore it does not allow its followers (no matter how they interpret it) to integrate fully into western law. One of the two will have to bend (if not break).
    Agreed. I think those muslims who agree with your (our) views here should take more action and generally speak for themselves more in the world.
    Out of curiousity, when you say 'reform', what exactly would you suggest?

    (Original post by miki_da_magpie)
    Completely agree, hence I was wondering how they were chosen, by whom etc? Ofcourse they are in the news more, but it doesnt stop them from preaching, having a following, and teaching young muslims their ideas does it? Like in fitma, that part where the girl is being questioned, that is what is so worrying, that these Imams are allowed to preach still, why do muslims like yourself not go against this? It always seems that it is the western (white) athiest/christian people that speak up against the Islam, why is it that so few Muslims can criticise these people who, like you say, they percieve as fakes?
    I can't help you with why their chosen actually. with us ismailis, our imam is the aga-khan; he's actually the global leader of all ismailis, we don't have regional imams, just one global one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aga_Khan_IV
    I think this imam-ness is passed down through family, though I'm not entirely sure - sorry.
    The muslims who I know who perceive these imams as fakes are the ones I personally know here; their imams do not preach this kind of BS, so they don't have anything to go against. I can't speak for other muslims, I've never met any from the middle east. the east african muslims, whatever their flaws, dont go in for this sort of BS.


    (Original post by miki_da_magpie)
    The problem with this is that the Islam will not go into discussion because it is the true word of god and it should not be doubted.
    This should not happen, and is a big problem. <3 free speech.

    (Original post by miki_da_magpie)
    I am really really interested in what the talks between the religios leaders (im not quite sure who or where they are, but saw somewhere on the news) are going well. The reason Wilders decided this way, was ofcourse, to get a reaction, because it's exactly what it needs! THIS DEBATE NEEDS A REACTION, and the only way that was ever going to happen was to get some serious attention, and he is accomplished that no? Sure he did a brit of provoking, but thats freedom of speech for ya... if you can say death to the infidels, and death to freedom, then I sure as hell think that we are entitelled to our say as well.
    That is a fair point, but i think personally he went a bit overboard; seems to me he was looking to provoke a reaction like the danish cartoons one. Besides, that's like saying 'they can do this, so we can too' - one hateful speech against another hateful speech, if that makes sense. I think he could have instigated such a debate more sensitively; or at least tried first before making Fitna.

    Check out this link btw: apparently a muslim's response to fitna. haven't watched it personally yet but it might interest you. http://www.mihpirzada.com/videos/fitnamovie.html

    In this lecture Shaykh M I H Pirzada responds to the recent release of Geert Wilders’ film named ‘Fitna’.
    The lecture was delivered at the Madni Jamia Masjid in Bradford (UK) on Sunday 30 March 2008.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by chocolate_brownie)
    Most religions don't actively endorse the hatred of other religions. Islam doesn't say anything about Hindu gods or disrespects them in anyway. Infact Islam says that you MUST respect people no matter what there race, gender, religion, etc is.

    The fact is that Islam is premised on the belief that Christianity and Judaism is 'corrupt', and that 'god' sent the Qu'ran to correct things. Like I said earlier, it is possible for Christians to be hugely offended by this, so you're argument that religion should be respected is unachievable.

    (Original post by chocolate_brownie)
    I just want to know why you can't use freedom of speech to justify sexism and racism but CAN use it to disrespect a religion?


    Like I said earlier, people do not choose their gender or race, but you do choose your religion! Is it so difficult for you to understand? It's an idea! An ideology! Like socialism, conservatism, Nazism and etc. Also, as long as you don't incite hatred, you are able to make racist comments. In the UK, you can deny the Holocaust, publish racist books, sexist books, homophobic books, and etc. So please, do not delude yourself any further about this illusionary strict distinction between race and sex on the one hand, and religion on the other.

    (Original post by chocolate_brownie)
    I don't disagree with the basic freedom of speech law but there needs to be clear lines regarding what is going too far. Prince Harry got into trouble for merely wearing a Nazi uniform to a fancy dress party but Salman Rushdie writes a book about our Prophet [pbuh] and he gets knighted? Nazis killed Jews = religion not an ethnicity, you can't promote Hitler's ideas and not get into trouble. I want to know why you are allowed to do so in regards to Islam?


    Also, what do you mean when you say Prince Harry got into 'trouble'? He certainly would not have been prosecuted under the law. The media just picked it up, and it got out of hand a little bit. Do not exaggerate it. Also, I find your comment regarding Salman Rushdie quite despicable. He was not knighted because he wrote The Satanic Versus, anymore than Saddam Hussein killed thousands of his Iraqi Kurdish and Marsh Arab citizens because he was a Muslim.

    As for the Jewish comment, although religion is not an ethnicity, Jewish people are also an ethnic group - so do not confuse them with Muslims or Christians.

    (Original post by chocolate_brownie)
    Most muslims haven't personally attacked any group. I'm not insisting that everyone should say peace be upon our prophet, but surely its not too much to ask to not insult him and Islam?


    Actually, you ask too much.

    We live in a global community, in diverse communities. It is not in our interest to go around offending each other. However, it is important that we preserve the right to do so. This is especially the case for Muslims, and other minority groups in the Western world. This must be one of the only periods in history when a minority group (e.g. Muslims) seek to curb freedom of speech and expression.

    (Original post by chocolate_brownie)
    So yes I would respect your religion, infact being a Muslim I would be required to respect it. It doesn't mean I follow it or believe it in, it means I won't go around publishing things about your religion and saying yeah its bull and your prophet is this and that. Personally you can have any belief system that you want to have, it doesn't hurt me so why should I go out of my way to insult your religion?


    I'm an atheist, but that's not the point. If your religion dictates that you should not criticise or mock other religions, then that's good for you. However, that is your belief. Do not impose it upon others!

    (Original post by chocolate_brownie)
    I disagree with some MUSLIMS about how they are behaving and blaming it on Islam, I think the whole teddy incident is stupid and extreme and personally I wouldn't care if someone went around saying yeah all Muslims are terrorists...ofcourse they would be ignorant but I wouldn't care but when people go out and insult my prophet or the Quran, an inanimate object incapable of doing wrong, yes I do mind.


    Like I said, in an inter-dependant world, it is in our interest to maintain cordial relations. However, the fact that you're offended when someone says something you just happen not to like about your religion is irrelevant.

    (Original post by chocolate_brownie)
    Just because there are bad muslims doesn't mean Islam is bad. And yes I think religions should be exempt from the FoS rule. If you ridicule a Sikh's turban its racial discrimination, but Sikhism is a religion? Why can't we do that then?

    Again, the situation is similar to Jews. There's a racial element there, which does not exist with Muslims, Christians or Scientiologists. Why do religious beliefs deserve exception from the right to free speech, but not secular beliefs? Why are religious people privileged? Like I said before, what if I start a religious movement, that is based on hugely offensive to Muslims? Perhaps this new religion regards Mohammed as the devil, and our religion requires our followers to draw vile pictures of Mohammed. How would we balance the right of both these religions not to be offended?

    (Original post by chocolate_brownie)
    Islam does NOT say we should kill gays...Islam is against homosexuality yes and it says that being muslims we can't be gays but it does NOT promote violence against homosexuals. Islam is against violence and I think its disgusting and pathetic that extremists and fanatic are going about killing gays and saying its what they were supposed to do as muslims.


    Well, Muslims don't really have a choice as to whether they're gay, in the same way that they don't have a choice in whether they're male or female, - but that's not the point. The fact is that many Muslims base their hatred of gays, and many justify violence towards them on their religion.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by nish81)
    Right, now I understand. But they should then judge the Bible equally.
    Unfortuantely followers of the bible are not currently doing what some followers of the muslim faith are doing...

    (Original post by nish81)
    You're probably right about the middle-eastern countries. However, I live in tanzania where a large part of the population is muslims, and would agree 100% with what I've said..they wouldn't consider it something to debate, just a fact of life really. So there are many other muslims who are integrated into the west, (see Ismailis [I'm an ismaili muslim ] in canada, they've integrated well). although we may still be in the minority granted.
    Your religious sect??? and culture is probably not what im aiming my debate about the islam at.

    (Original post by nish81)
    But didn't the Christians clean up their act, (like you said right before this) without having to change wording of the Bible?
    This is true i think, but western culture or cultures to accepted the christian faith, learned that there are some parts of the bibel that are no longer applicable and learned to ignore/work around them.

    (Original post by nish81)
    My belief is that the inability of islam to integrate is not very much to do with the Qu'ran, and more to do with the mindset of the Muslims. Firstly, I doubt many religions would agree to change the words in their holy books, (just my personal opinion), least of all Muslims; not that this is right, it's just why it would be an ineffective approach. And even if the words were changed, the mindset would remain, and be passed down through families; I think better would be to get muslims to see why they should not take the Qu'ran literally.
    To put it another way, deal with the people themselves, not with the holy book - my view.
    Ofcourse, the people themselves should be target, but by accepting that the Quran isnt flawless, i think a lot of the extreme views would be deminished.

    (Original post by nish81)
    Agreed. I think those muslims who agree with your (our) views here should take more action and generally speak for themselves more in the world.
    Out of curiousity, when you say 'reform', what exactly would you suggest?
    Religious leaders of the Islamic faith agreeing that the Quran is not the complete word of god and that some parts are no longer applicable to this day and age, and that the violence shown by the extremists are using the Islamic word and religion in vain and are the true infidels.

    (Original post by nish81)
    That is a fair point, but i think personally he went a bit overboard; seems to me he was looking to provoke a reaction like the danish cartoons one. Besides, that's like saying 'they can do this, so we can too' - one hateful speech against another hateful speech, if that makes sense. I think he could have instigated such a debate more sensitively; or at least tried first before making Fitna.
    Wilders is currently running for PM in the netherlands, and is trying to make the same impression that Pim Fortuijn for instance made. In the netherlands, I believe that radcical steps need to be taken, thus radical words must be spoken. Ofcourse, it shouldnt be "getting back at you", but it needs to be shocking enough for people to take notice. In politics you find, subtlety does not get you very far (just ask Hitler, Dali Lama, Gandhi, etc).[/quote]

    (Original post by nish81)
    Check out this link btw: apparently a muslim's response to fitna. haven't watched it personally yet but it might interest you. http://www.mihpirzada.com/videos/fitnamovie.html
    yea I had a look at that earlier, I find that he is cutting the edges a bit, kinda flirting with a come back, but it feels lacluster and unispiring. He ends up trying to make winston churchill sound like a religious extremist :rolleyes:
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Miki, can you quote verses where Islam says you either convert non believers or kill them? Islam DOES respect women, its patriarchal muslims who are going about forcing women to wear veils and deny them an education, this is my argument, its not ISLAM, its the MUSLIMS. Why do you think Islam insults other faiths?

    JSM I agree with you that many muslims DO hate gays because of the fact that Islam is against homosexuality but I disagree that its Islam's fault because while it says homosexuality is wrong, it NEVER promotes violence against them and that is why muslims annoy me because they try and justify everything wrong that they do by saying they are only doing what they should as muslims.

    While I agree that to a certain extent Sikhism and Judaism as religions also have ethnic links, so does Islam and Arabs, Pakistanis, etc...it just amuses me they you can't go around calling someone a Paki, etc and discriminate against their ethnicity but can insult their religion when as a Pakistani their religion is so much more a huge part of them, Islam and Pakistan are very integrated together.

    I don't blame people for hating on muslims such as Osama and Saddam and sure go ahead and insult them or ridicule them or whatever since I feel that their interpretation of Islam is wrong, I feel so anyway, but why insult Islam?
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Islam does mention all the other prophets such as Jesus, Abraham, David, Noah, etc and as Muslims we must respect them as we would respect Muhammad peace be upon them. It doesn't say that Jesus was wrong, etc.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by chocolate_brownie)
    Islam does mention all the other prophets such as Jesus, Abraham, David, Noah, etc and as Muslims we must respect them as we would respect Muhammad peace be upon them. It doesn't say that Jesus was wrong, etc.
    But it does condemn the Jewish faith, and the Jewish prophet. So far as to inspire Hamas to a religious jihad against the jews.
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    The Jewish prophet is one of our prophets as well and as I said, as Muslims we HAVE to respect every single prophet.
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by pretz)
    You're deluded if you don't think most Muslims are homophobic, but since you are a creationist and an anti-semitic conspiracy theorist you're already quite good at believing in the illogical so I wouldn't put it past you.
    The Closet Nazi speaks, ... where have I been Anti-Semitic? I've provided evidence that you support the BNP, now prove that I'm Anti-Semitic.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Ive got to say it is very biased, but things it brings up are relevant points, mis-translation or not, a woman getting shot in the head with an AK, "Freedom to Hell", anti-western rallies (the ones in english aswell), honor killing (the translation was correct by the way (the bit in Turkish)) say it all. I feel that this was a minority of the populace of Islam say 5 years ago, but now it has become more widespread, more active, more fanatics, and I hate to say it, but more threatening.

    Overall, relevantly politically coherant video (by that I mean its a video that represents the views of a majority of people (both in the east and west), not just by "racists"). I find the interpretation of anti-judasism hilarious though, Islam and Judasism has so much in common and the fact that Islam does hold jewish prophets as there own (there are around 25000 prophets recoginsed by islam).

    In my opinion, a worthy video which does show what happens in alot of islamic states (and yes it is alot of "saudi arabia, afganistan, iraq, nigeria, iran.... list goes on") although to varying degrees, but the smallest degree would even count as a violation of human rights.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by chocolate_brownie)
    Miki, can you quote verses where Islam says you either convert non believers or kill them? Islam DOES respect women, its patriarchal muslims who are going about forcing women to wear veils and deny them an education, this is my argument, its not ISLAM, its the MUSLIMS. Why do you think Islam insults other faiths?

    I don't blame people for hating on muslims such as Osama and Saddam and sure go ahead and insult them or ridicule them or whatever since I feel that their interpretation of Islam is wrong, I feel so anyway, but why insult Islam?
    Where is the Islam insulted in the video?

    4:15] Those who commit adultery among your women, you must have four witnesses against them, from among you. If they do bear witness, then you shall keep such women in their homes until they die, or until GOD creates an exit for them.
    You have the right to kill them (thats how i interpret that).

    4:34] The men are made responsible for the women, and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD's commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them.
    33:33 Do not show or display (fineries or ornaments or) beauties of your form (or countenance) that may excite a man’s lust
    call in to witness from among your men two witnesses; but if there are not two men, then one man and two women from among those whom you choose to be witnesses, so that if one of the two gets confused and errs or forgets, the second of the two may remind the other; ...[2:282]
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lord Hysteria)
    1) AT WHAT POINT did I use "extremist" :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: - you are gaining some ground on what I say - but forgetting I didn't even say that.

    2)As for your point : Islam is a religion of peace:

    Surah 8, verse 60 in the Quran:

    "prepare for them whatever cavalry ye are able of gathering to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies, of Allah and your enemies"

    When we hear people saying that - they are labelled "extremist" (now I use the word) but people fail to realise it is in the Quran!



    EDIT:- I am going offline now - so might respond to what you say a different time.
    Well Done! I think the name "Hysteria" is well deserved. Did you actually make an attempt to read that whole verse in its context? Are you really academic enough to be at university? Pray, tell... what method of citation does this style come under? ...the school of cunning?





    The concluding verse reads; "If they resort to peace, so shall you, and put your trust in GOD. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient." 8:61 It's self explanatory really.



    Once again, you've proven to be inconsistent with your pathetic little 'debate.' Stick to the Harry Potter stories; linking to a picture earlier of Rubeus Hagrid to prove that beards look unattractive.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by urbandervish)
    Well Done! I think the name "Hysteria" is well deserved. Did you actually make an attempt to read that whole verse in its context? Are you really academic enough to be at university? Pray, tell... what method of citation does this style come under? ...the school of cunning?





    The concluding verse reads; "If they resort to peace, so shall you, and put your trust in GOD. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient." 8:61 It's self explanatory really.



    Once again, you've proven to be inconsistent with your pathetic little 'debate.' Stick to the Harry Potter stories; linking to a picture earlier of Rubeus Hagrid to prove that beards look unattractive.
    Intregued, care to try my points out? Read on the previous page please
    And even in this context... who cares about the concluding verse? Prepare for war and killing, but if they surrender (dont fight back) you shall resort to peace as well? Its still ****ed up
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by urbandervish)
    The Closet Nazi speaks, ... where have I been Anti-Semitic? I've provided evidence that you support the BNP, now prove that I'm Anti-Semitic.
    Huh? I asked you to produce evidence that shows I support the BNP and you in turn pasted a sentence wrote by me where I said that I don't support the BNP. Stop lying.

    As for your anti-semitism, the fact that you, in previous posts, have assumed that just because someone is Jewish they are plotting to divide Christians and Muslims shows your true nature.
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by miki_da_magpie)
    Intregued, care to try my points out? Read on the previous page please
    And even in this context... who cares about the concluding verse? Prepare for war and killing, but if they surrender (dont fight back) you shall resort to peace as well? Its still ****ed up

    You're not qaulified to analyse da verses just as much as da Taliban weren't. It's their interpretation, this is your interpretation. If I had any qaulifications in understanding International Law, I'd tell you ~ I haven't, that subject, for now, for me, is void. You, on the other hand, have become an Islamic Scholar of the highest emminence in about three posts.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by urbandervish)

    You're not qaulified to analyse da verses just as much as da Taliban weren't. It's their interpretation, this is your interpretation. If I had any qaulifications in understanding International Law, I'd tell you ~ I haven't, that subject, for now, for me, is void. You, on the other hand, have become an Islamic Scholar of the highest emminence in about three posts.
    Do you consider yourself an Islamic scholar? Do you speak Arabic? How on earth can you know any more than he does?
    • Thread Starter
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    these arguments just illistrate my point. Why keep such verses when they clearly do encourage people to interpret the quran so badly?
    • 8 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    people can't blame everyone in a religion for one persons faults.
Updated: February 26, 2009
New on TSR

Writing your personal statement

Our free PS builder tool makes it easy

Article updates
Useful resources
Reputation gems:
You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.