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Doctor to Teacher????

Jacko5869

If you go over to australia to train i heard that it doesnt count as training if you come back to Britain, is this true?

Yes and no. Once you started SHO or SpR training in Oz you would find it hard, if not impossible to slot back into the British system. But, an australian consultant with their CCST equivialant could apply for British consultant jobs.

And also, are there actually that many jobs out there?

Yes and no. You would find it relatively hard to pop over and jump into a teaching post, certainly in the big cities. I understand that they usually want juniors to do a job in the wilderness to prove their commitment first.

Reply 61

Helenia

20

seanw

As for job shortages, the whole thread was about job problems for graduating med students; the prospects in america, australia and new zealand are fantastic for medicine.

Erm, not so much any more. Australia and NZ in particular are full to bursting with disgruntled British doctors; it's actually quite hard to get permanent jobs down there now.

As for why would I not want to leave - because my family, friends and boyfriend are here and I don't want to leave them. Because I like the UK, for all its flaws - and I won't be in London long term. Because being a junior doctor in the US is even ****ter than here. Because I don't want to work for an unfair system where people are denied treatment they need because they don't have enough money. Because I don't want to spend half my life getting sued. Because I basically just don't like America enough to want to work there. Australia and NZ would be slightly less awful but even so, they're really, really far away, and I just don't want that upheaval.

Reply 62

Touche

15

Renal

Yes and no. Once you started SHO or SpR training in Oz you would find it hard, if not impossible to slot back into the British system. But, an australian consultant with their CCST equivialant could apply for British consultant jobs.

Yes and no. You would find it relatively hard to pop over and jump into a teaching post, certainly in the big cities. I understand that they usually want juniors to do a job in the wilderness to prove their commitment first.

I think you're overstating the difficulty in coming back to the UK. It's not even close to impossible. I personally people who have jobs in the UK from August while working in Oz at the moment.

Experience abroad can be seen as very valuable. Out of program experience is actually encouraged by the RCS for example. There are travelling fellowships available through ASiT, and their annual reports are always inspirational.

If you went for a year abroad after F2, you'd apply for ST1 jobs having 2 years and 4 months of qualified experience. Compare this with the 1 year and 4 months experience fresh F2s (who you were competing against for ST1 jobs) had... not too hard to get your interviews if you do a little work.

It might start to get difficult if you stay abroad for a number of years. This is because evidence of career progression is used as a job shortlisting criteria.

Experience abroad is usually not counted toward years off your training toward a CCT. Then again neither are non-deanery-approved UK posts. It is possible to get prospective deanery approval for time to be spent abroad. It is possible to for example to do your F2 year abroad with prior approval. Then again do you really want time abroad to 'count'? Some would argue the longer you have to train properly, the better you'll be for it. That's a whole other issue though.

Reply 63

Renal

17

Touche

I think you're overstating the difficulty in coming back to the UK. It's not even close to impossible. I personally people who have jobs in the UK from August while working in Oz at the moment.Training job to training job? I thought the nash was making them all drop back to the start of ST. :confused:

Reply 64

Touche

15

Renal

Training job to training job? I thought the nash was making them all drop back to the start of ST. :confused:

This year...

FY2 -> Oz -> ST1

has been common. I also know a...

FY1 -> Oz (with prior deanery approval) -> ST1

You've always been able to go abroad in the middle of an SpR/ST rotation and slot back in where you left off with prior approval from the postgraduate dean.

Reply 65

Renal

17

Touche

This year...

FY2 -> Oz -> ST1

has been common. I also know a...

FY1 -> Oz (with prior deanery approval) -> ST1

You've always been able to go abroad in the middle of an SpR/ST rotation and slot back in where you left off with prior approval from the postgraduate dean.

Although you can do F2 overseas (and F1 if you're a foreign national) you can't start SHO training in Oz, for example, and come back to the UK and slot into ST2 or 3 - they'd send you back to ST1.

Reply 66

Touche

15

Renal

Although you can do F2 overseas (and F1 if you're a foreign national) you can't start SHO training in Oz, for example, and come back to the UK and slot into ST2 or 3 - they'd send you back to ST1.

Because you're starting a new rotation after F2 (ie a C/ST program), I can't see how you'd get the job abroad approved. It may be possible to get educational approval in those circumstances, but I've never looked into it so I can't say. The local postgraduate dean would be the person to approach about this if you were considering it.

If you got approval, you *might* be disqualifying yourself from ST1 applications (the interpretation of the rules *might* change from this year's)... You could still apply for ST2 entry (if that still exists), although competition would be much greater per post and stiffer than at ST1 level. Be aware that this year deaneries limited applicants to one level per speciality per area. Also be aware that if you applied for the 'wrong' level this year you had your application binned (apparently upto 1/3 of applications were binned for things like this in some areas this year)...

It probably makes much more sense to just say 'screw it', be thankful you're getting a great experience abroad, apply at ST1 level and kick butt in your applications...

Doctor to Teacher????

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