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Reply 60
In my opinion a number of these posts miss the point. The OP is not judging the people in this situation, that will be done by immigration officers according to the law. If you disagree with the law then that's a separate issue, but that's not an excuse for a company to be employing people illegally.
Reply 61
CurlyBen
If you disagree with the law then that's a separate issue, but that's not an excuse for a company to be employing people illegally.


I think that's a perfectly good excuse.
Reply 62
L i b
I think that's a perfectly good excuse.

But do you think the company is employing them to make a point about perceived injustice in the law, or because they want to take advantage of labour at below minimum wage?
L i b
British poverty is very different from poverty abroad.


Why? There are people suffering on our doorsteps and you'd rather look halfway across the world to help someone there instead. I'm sure I could find someone in the world worse off than these illegal workers, it doesn't mean they deserve more.

And why is it acceptable for a foreigner born into poverty to break laws for money, but not a British person in poverty?
L i b

So what? I think it's fairly likely that they, like many others, are from the 'less desirable' countries. I think it's fairly apparent that it's only the rich and those from acceptable (usually white) countries that get to emigrate to Britain legally in any numbers. If you're a typical fellow from, say, Uganda, what opportunities to you have to come here, or indeed any other country, legally to work? Nil.


But that's nothing racist like you implied, it's an issue of practicality. If someone is going to be beneficial to the country, they're more likely to be let in. Those from the "less desirable" countries are unlikely to have any skills - if we decided our immigration policies purely on idealistic morality, we would have the entire of Africa living in Britain. It's not possible, at least not without the standard of living of British people sliding incredibly low.
Reply 64
Bateman
Immigrants come from **** countries, you learn something new everyday

hhaha, someone neg repped me, whilst i was quoting lib dem on how immigrants DON't come from **** countries, and their rep says "no, they don't come from **** countries!!1!!11!!" lmao

people on here really aren't as intelligent as their academic acheivements on their sigs
Reply 65
CurlyBen
But do you think the company is employing them to make a point about perceived injustice in the law, or because they want to take advantage of labour at below minimum wage?


"Take advantage" of something which is stupidly illegal - if anything, that's a disadvantage.

I don't care if what their motivations are, they are behaving quite normally and ignoring a bloody stupid law.

joker_900
Why? There are people suffering on our doorsteps and you'd rather look halfway across the world to help someone there instead. I'm sure I could find someone in the world worse off than these illegal workers, it doesn't mean they deserve more.


It means that to be 'poor' in Britain is still to live a privileged lifestyle. The needs of the foreign poor are far greater than the needs of our 'poor', who have advantages most of the world can only dream of.

But that's nothing racist like you implied, it's an issue of practicality. If someone is going to be beneficial to the country, they're more likely to be let in. Those from the "less desirable" countries are unlikely to have any skills - if we decided our immigration policies purely on idealistic morality, we would have the entire of Africa living in Britain. It's not possible, at least not without the standard of living of British people sliding incredibly low.


It all works out the same in the end; and I think many people are happy at the end result of keeping the number of foreign-looking types to a minimum.

I want the standard of living of British people to slide, ultimately. The enormous economic privileges they take compared to other nations are unjustifiable. I don't want the population of Africa to come here, I want to make us a world that is co-dependent and realises that even the world's most impoverished should be given opportunities to raise their standard of living.
Unfortunately, that's the way it is. We can't simply open up our borders and let in anyone who wants to come here. Of course they all want to come here. How do you think most of those illegal immigrants arrive here? It certainly isn't direct by plane from their own country. It's by hiding on the back of a lorry in France or Holland having paid a criminal gang thousands to smuggle him thousands of miles across Europe. And what do you think happens with that money?

Marcus
yeh send him back so the rebel forces can kill him

or so he can live on half a biscuit a day with his wife and 3 kids having 1/8th
L i b


I want the standard of living of British people to slide, ultimately. The enormous economic privileges they take compared to other nations are unjustifiable. I don't want the population of Africa to come here, I want to make us a world that is co-dependent and realises that even the world's most impoverished should be given opportunities to raise their standard of living.


Your bio:
Libertarian, champion of the right, the one man who is making it cool to be a Scottish Tory once more; an Internationalist, a scholar and, dare I say, a gentlemen - exuding suaveness and sophistication at every turn.


will the real L i b please stand up?

L i b
There's a bit of difference between someone who is desperate going to great lengths to come to this country to raise himself slightly from his poverty and often to help his family, and British thieves and benefit fraudsters.


Yes, well that's alright then. Why don't we just tell every poor man and woman in the world that we don't mind them coming here for work.

And when there's no jobs for them all because millions are arriving each year, we must protect their human rights by giving them thousands in benefits and a roof over their heads.

Ask yourself why countries spend tens of millions on regulating immigration and preventing illegal workers. They're not just doing it because its something to do.

Marcus
Reply 70
marcusfox
And when there's no jobs for them all because millions are arriving each year, we must protect their human rights by giving them thousands in benefits and a roof over their heads.


I'll hardly be sad to see the tail-end of the British benefits system.

Ask yourself why countries spend tens of millions on regulating immigration and preventing illegal workers. They're not just doing it because its something to do.


To defend their own unsustainable privilege.
L i b

Because mostly Britain only lets people in who are (a) rich or (b) white. The opportunities for foreigners to emigrate here solely for economic reasons are tiny.


Or a) actually worth something to this country (having skills or abilities we need)

(however I hold caveat that I've looked at the nationalisation test, and it's a god-damned joke)

Either you think that the current law relating to illegal immigrants represents justics or not. If you do, then report them. If you have respect for rule of law and why it's there, report them.

Otherwise, consider why you're doing it - maybe you'll understand your own political beliefs a bit better.
L i b

It means that to be 'poor' in Britain is still to live a privileged lifestyle. The needs of the foreign poor are far greater than the needs of our 'poor', who have advantages most of the world can only dream of.

Yeah, the people who live on our streets and have to beg so they can eat. Real advantageous.
L i b

It all works out the same in the end; and I think many people are happy at the end result of keeping the number of foreign-looking types to a minimum.

Unjustified nonsense.
L i b

I want the standard of living of British people to slide, ultimately. The enormous economic privileges they take compared to other nations are unjustifiable. I don't want the population of Africa to come here, I want to make us a world that is co-dependent and realises that even the world's most impoverished should be given opportunities to raise their standard of living.


To want people to lose what they and they're ancestors have worked and fought and strove for is not as noble a thought as you seem to think. Some countries are rich, some are poor. That has nothing to do with morality, or rich countries being mean, it's just how it is. You're incredibly naive and if you were our PM you'd let that naivity destroy us for no real benefit to anyone else. I wonder if we were the poor country and Africa were rich, would those African nations ever consider letting their standards of living fall so we can all be as miserable as each other? I wonder if you would follow through with what you preach and invest your life's savings into building houses in Africa. I doubt it.
L i b
There's a bit of difference between someone who is desperate going to great lengths to come to this country to raise himself slightly from his poverty and often to help his family, and British thieves and benefit fraudsters.


And what of a British person who is desperate, going to great lengths to raise himself slightly from his poverty and often to help his family? Is he not "entitled" to do a bit of cash in hand work on the side at a few pounds per hour, since in spite of what people may protest, the benefits aren't really enough to live on if you don't meet the criteria. What about a poor woman stealing a few K to pay for her daughter's life saving cancer operation?

All worthy causes, but I don't know how you can say their motivation is any different.

Marcus
Reply 74
TBH id agree with marcus on this one
Its a bit Machiavellian but truly I think it would be better to report the catering business. When you think of all the people who are smuggled into the country in crowded conditions to work for pitifully low cash in hand wages and living in squalid conditions, and the bastards that profit off this kind of crap... its deplorable.
Well done for everyone who came here legally, and all asylum seekers, etc etc etc. I understand that the immigration system is not what it should be and there will always be a sad story.
But at the end of the day, yes, think about the cockle pickers, think about those poor people in Holland that suffocated in the back of a truck trying to find themselves "better lives"... and that every person who comes here illegally is almost perpetuating the business of the little ****s who take advantage of people who are just trying to do well by their families.

wait, how come bastard isnt censored??? edit
Reply 75
Lib, following this through, do you think we should set up easier ways for people to get here from Africa or wherever else they want to leave? Otherwise you still need a substantial amount of money to get here illegally, so there are still others left behind who can't afford to put themselves into a position to live more comfortably?
Miss Mess
TBH id agree with marcus on this one
Its a bit Machiavellian but truly I think it would be better to report the catering business. When you think of all the people who are smuggled into the country in crowded conditions to work for pitifully low cash in hand wages and living in squalid conditions, and the bastards that profit off this kind of crap... its deplorable.
Well done for everyone who came here legally, and all asylum seekers, etc etc etc. I understand that the immigration system is not what it should be and there will always be a sad story.
But at the end of the day, yes, think about the cockle pickers, think about those poor people in Holland that suffocated in the back of a truck trying to find themselves "better lives"... and that every person who comes here illegally is almost perpetuating the business of the little ****s who take advantage of people who are just trying to do well by their families.

wait, how come bastard isnt censored??? edit


While indeed a side topic and a different issue, many "asylum seekers" are just using the excuse that their country is tyrannical so they can become a legal migrant and thus claim the generous benefits and free housing that the UK offers.

Most of them don't actually arrive direct on a flight or boat from that tyrannical nation, they arrive off the back of a lorry from France or Holland, passing through Spain, Italy, Germany, etc on the way. Now, you can't say those countries are tyrannical, except perhaps in the way that they fail to provide benefits in the same way that the UK does.

Now while I do believe that we should take our own proportion of genuine asylum seekers, the number coming here is disproportionate to those arriving in the EU as a whole, and it is obvious really.

If all of them were escaping tyranny in whatever country, surely they'd claim asylum in the first safe country they reached.

Marcus
Reply 77
marcusfox
While indeed a side topic and a different issue, many "asylum seekers" are just using the excuse that their country is tyrannical so they can become a legal migrant and thus claim the generous benefits and free housing that the UK offers.

Most of them don't actually arrive direct on a flight or boat from that tyrannical nation, they arrive off the back of a lorry from France or Holland, passing through Spain, Italy, Germany, etc on the way. Now, you can't say those countries are tyrannical, except perhaps in the way that they fail to provide benefits in the same way that the UK does.

Now while I do believe that we should take our own proportion of genuine asylum seekers, the number coming here is disproportionate to those arriving in the EU as a whole, and it is obvious really.

If all of them were escaping tyranny in whatever country, surely they'd claim asylum in the first safe country they reached.

Marcus


All fair enough really, I know very little about it!
Stop the Snitchin'
Crimson Black
They are here illegally. It follows logically that they were brought here illegally. The way that happens is through being ferried illegally by unscrupulous bastards who demand thousands for a one-way trip and then have them work off the payment in a low-paid job.

It's not a case of "they took our jobs", it's a case of undercutting the shady organisations that are behind bringing people into this country, and which funds drugs, people-trafficking, forgery, and extortion; not to mention the toll on the legitimate economy the shadow economy has.
That won't solve anything. Stopping the criminals who organise the transportation will not stop the numbers of the impoverished from building up at Calais, who will oterhwise end up starving to death all because of being someone lucky enough to be born in the UK wants to keep their privileged position.

The day do-goody "don't grass" morality undermines UK law (which is put in place by intelligent people for very good reasons) is a day I hope will never arrive. Don't pick-and-mix the law like picking the best parts out of religion to suit you. Report them for the good of others.
People do not have some moral obligation to follow the law; the fact the the law is ever evolving reflects this.

joker_900
Why? There are people suffering on our doorsteps and you'd rather look halfway across the world to help someone there instead. I'm sure I could find someone in the world worse off than these illegal workers, it doesn't mean they deserve more.
Then why would a Brit "deserve more" than the illegal?

joker_900
Yeah, the people who live on our streets and have to beg so they can eat. Real advantageous.
What? Are you in all seriousness saying poor Brits have it just as bad as poor people from poorer countries? In real terms it is more advantageous to be in the UK. How anyone could claim otherwise is absurd.:rolleyes:

To want people to lose what they and they're ancestors have worked and fought and strove for is not as noble a thought as you seem to think. Some countries are rich, some are poor. That has nothing to do with morality, or rich countries being mean, it's just how it is. You're incredibly naive and if you were our PM you'd let that naivity destroy us for no real benefit to anyone else. I wonder if we were the poor country and Africa were rich, would those African nations ever consider letting their standards of living fall so we can all be as miserable as each other? I wonder if you would follow through with what you preach and invest your life's savings into building houses in Africa. I doubt it.
Please don't bring all this nationalist bull into the discussion. It's utterly irrelevant.

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