Investment banking VS Actuarial

uthinkilltellu

its a bit like crop circles, they are there, but no one knows for certain how they got there. :eek:

1st round interview doesn't constitute a job offer!
also in every networking event i've been to all people there were from top 6 unis. so unless they consign people from 'the rest' into basements, i'd say that you have to be in top6 if you want a good shot at an internship.

Ahh, but thats where your idea falls to shreds:

I think banks have a minimum requirements system, so when someone selects a university say, for example, Manchester Uni (which is socially awesome), they'll get automatically rejected because the banks might only want students from traditionally strong universities (can't be bothered to list them all- but unis that are always in top 10).

so no matter how good a person someone is, the hard truth is, they'll get rejected before they even get to speak to the recruiters.

Its when they land the 1st interview, they have a chance to impress. Whether you be from LSE or Greenwich, if you impress, most likely you will make it onto the next stage. Thats what i meant when i said, its all about the person, more than the uni itself.

i'd whore myself to them using every single action word in my vocabulary! :biggrin:

with regards to cass business school, its almost as hard to get into as Oxford, so why bother? i know that it offers some specialist degrees, but i doubt that they'll teach you anything more than the bargain basement topics they teach to the rest of us.

Eh? ... Im interested in finance, i want to work in finance, and for me it would only make sense to do a degree geared towards finance, and i doubt you will learn stuff like Risk Mitigation , or any financial modelling...tech analysis etc in your 2nd year, elsewhere.

Reply 21

Mos Def

Ahh, but thats where your idea falls to shreds:

Its when they land the 1st interview, they have a chance to impress. Whether you be from LSE or Greenwich, if you impress, most likely you will make it onto the next stage. Thats what i meant when i said, its all about the person, more than the uni itself.

Eh? ... Im interested in finance, i want to work in finance, and for me it would only make sense to do a degree geared towards finance, and i doubt you will learn stuff like Risk Mitigation , or any financial modelling...tech analysis etc in your 2nd year, elsewhere.

surely you are not saying that a person from Greenwich has an equal chance of getting an IB job as a guy from LSE?? that'd be preposterous :eek:

I'm pretty sure you'll study it at LSE/oxbridge/ucl/warick

If you are THAT interested in finance then you'll lean about risk mitigation, black-scholes, greeks, etc. in your spare time. :wink:

Reply 22

silent ninja

19

Incredibly immature uthinkilltellu. "People will be in awe of you" (you must be terribly insecure) and "elitism" are hardly good reasons for wanting to go into IB. The latter implies an old boys network where people get in via their dad's connections rather than ability. Yes it happens, but it's not a good thing.
Maybe when you were little you always wished you were in 'that group' (the cool group) but never made it, either way you sound like an idiot. And your idea of 'fast cars, girls, die at 40...' 40 will hit you like a bus, wake-up, 40 is around the corner! Only people who haven't lived have such a notion.

Reply 23

uthinkilltellu

surely you are not saying that a person from Greenwich has an equal chance of getting an IB job as a guy from LSE?? that'd be preposterous :eek:

I'm pretty sure you'll study it at LSE/oxbridge/ucl/warick

If you are THAT interested in finance then you'll lean about risk mitigation, black-scholes, greeks, etc. in your spare time. :wink:

Nope you don't :smile:

.. the closest you get to that is analysing the FTSE graph in a stats module i forgot which in Econ Stats, well thats what i applied for so thats what i know, but im pretty damn sure in no course listed in the above unis will you learn financial modelling and risk mitigation etc ... i could be a super star swing trader in my spare time too, you could do the CFA in your spare time too... no.

Reply 24

Masucha

8

Assumptions people have about IB that are wrong.

1)You have to have attended Oxbridge/LSE/UCL/Warick.

I personally know people who attended Bristol/Nottingham/Edinburgh/Imperial that work for Lehman Bros, Merill Lynch, JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs respectively.

2)You will be a millionaire by the time you are 30.

Sure if you are good then they might let you start trading with real money. Look at write downs and job cuts. They regularly cull the poorest performing staff. Some peoples ideas are pure fantastical, its not a Hollywood movie. Nothing is guaranteed with IB one mistake and you could be out. You regularly have to play up to the boss. The suicide rate and rehab attendance are pretty high.

Reply 25

Mos Def

Nope you don't :smile:

.. the closest you get to that is analysing the FTSE graph in a stats module i forgot which in Econ Stats, well thats what i applied for so thats what i know, but im pretty damn sure in no course listed in the above unis will you learn financial modelling and risk mitigation etc ... i could be a super star swing trader in my spare time too, you could do the CFA in your spare time too... no.

really? if thats the case, then i stand corrected.

but you are not a trader :p:

you are delta speculator - learn the difference boy :cool:

.lol.

surely every trader was a swing trader at some stage in their career? :rolleyes:

and maybe, just maybe, i'm a professional scalper (bid-ask speculator) whos name strikes fear into the hearts of brokerage houses worldwide? maybe just maybe :p:

i was think of doing SII's introduction to investments, but then i've realised that it would be too sad, just tooo sad to do it.

by the way, cass is a great school. you'll def know more about banking than everyone else, but i suspect that their name brand isn't as strong as that of lse or oxbridge.

Reply 26

silent ninja

Incredibly immature uthinkilltellu. "People will be in awe of you" (you must be terribly insecure) and "elitism" are hardly good reasons for wanting to go into IB. The latter implies an old boys network where people get in via their dad's connections rather than ability. Yes it happens, but it's not a good thing.
Maybe when you were little you always wished you were in 'that group' (the cool group) but never made it, either way you sound like an idiot. And your idea of 'fast cars, girls, die at 40...' 40 will hit you like a bus, wake-up, 40 is around the corner! Only people who haven't lived have such a notion.

ah, your astounding sense of homour tells me that you are either an accountant or an actuary - you wear conservative ties, starched shirts and suits that look like they were hand-made for someone else.

i am insecure - thats why my type A personality won't allow me to do anything less masochistic than investment banking!!!

elitism is as good reason as any. better in fact. and i do wish my daddy was an investment banker, i really do, that would make things SOo much easier. But sadly i have to rely on my razor sharp brain, satirically palatable sense of humour and boyish good looks to get an internship at a top tiered IB (and I did! mwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha).

i always wished to be in the cool group. especially when the temperature was boiling in the summer, but sadly the cool group hogged the walk-in-fridge (hence their name), so I had to cultivate my tattered ego into "a lean mean IB internship-getting machine" (hey! it rhymes when you say it out loud - would you look at that, i'm a poet and i didn't know it!) :biggrin:

40... oh my god! you are right, its like another 20 years away... its 7300 days away, 175200 hours away, 10512000 minutes away, 630720000 seconds away... i need to start doing something quality with my life... like.... like.... oh i know! i'll spend most of it sitting huntched over my laptop staring at a bunch of numbers on a balance sheet, or alternatively i could check the mortality rates of Slough and look at how they compare to Leeds over 5 year period - yeah! now theres a wacky way to spend 20 years! :rolleyes:

"only people who haven't lived have such a notion" - now thats quite rich coming from an accountant/actuary. :p:

Reply 27

Masucha

Assumptions people have about IB that are wrong.

1)You have to have attended Oxbridge/LSE/UCL/Warick.

I personally know people who attended Bristol/Nottingham/Edinburgh/Imperial that work for Lehman Bros, Merill Lynch, JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs respectively.

2)You will be a millionaire by the time you are 30.

Sure if you are good then they might let you start trading with real money. Look at write downs and job cuts. They regularly cull the poorest performing staff. Some peoples ideas are pure fantastical, its not a Hollywood movie. Nothing is guaranteed with IB one mistake and you could be out. You regularly have to play up to the boss. The suicide rate and rehab attendance are pretty high.

NEXT!

wrong is such a harsh word, but i do have to agree. your assumptions about IB are confused! (i've interned and worked in a couple, so i'd know). :wink:

i applogise for missing out Imperial. what was i thinking? :redface:

but the rest - okay, maybe 1 person gets into middle back/ back office, but thats due to contacts, skill, luck and thats out of contingent of 200 applicants.

also, i didn't say (i think, therfore, i'm a stapler! ah! Descartes) that people from the aforementioned unis have no chance of getting into IB. what i meant to say was that the chance of them gettinng into (a good job in) IB is severly ******ed especially when you take into account students from the top 6 unis all vying for the coveted positions.

what would you be trading before trading 'real' money? trading paper clips? NO! the reason why IBs pay exhilarating amounts of money is that they expect YOU to make money for them! i agree about cuts and the deaths, and the drug abuse. but then its all about the person, if you want to raise to the challenge then you'll be rewarded.

and at the end of the day, if are not very good and you get sacked - you could always become an actuary! :biggrin:

Reply 28

uthinkilltellu

really? if thats the case, then i stand corrected.

but you are not a trader :p:

you are delta speculator - learn the difference boy :cool:

.lol.

surely every trader was a swing trader at some stage in their career? :rolleyes:

and maybe, just maybe, i'm a professional scalper (bid-ask speculator) whos name strikes fear into the hearts of brokerage houses worldwide? maybe just maybe :p:

i was think of doing SII's introduction to investments, but then i've realised that it would be too sad, just tooo sad to do it.

by the way, cass is a great school. you'll def know more about banking than everyone else, but i suspect that their name brand isn't as strong as that of lse or oxbridge.

lol... yeah course the name wont be better than those said places, but im ready to give it a shot, we'll see what happens. And i don't really think all traders were once swing traders, I know a history grad (camb), who knew nothing about trading etc, but gave it a shot and now works on the BarCap TF.

Reply 29

Mos Def

lol... yeah course the name wont be better than those said places, but im ready to give it a shot, we'll see what happens. And i don't really think all traders were once swing traders, I know a history grad ](camb)who knew nothing about trading etc, but gave it a shot and now works on the BarCap TF.

could have should have done better.

unless hes in FI that is. then, i'm taking my preverbial hat off to him

what does he do? cos i'm thinking of going for barcap (i hear they pay the top dollar, and as a trader it doesn't matter where you work cos if you become good, i mean, really good, then you could walk into any firm)

Reply 30

uthinkilltellu

could have should have done better.

unless hes in FI that is. then, i'm taking my preverbial hat off to him

what does he do? cos i'm thinking of going for barcap (i hear they pay the top dollar, and as a trader it doesn't matter where you work cos if you become good, i mean, really good, then you could walk into any firm)

He's a trader, and i don't know how true it is, but he says he was started on 50k, meh i don't get these BarCap people, tons of them say weird figures like that.

Reply 31

Masucha

8

uthinkilltellu

what would you be trading before trading 'real' money? trading paper clips? NO! the reason why IBs pay exhilarating amounts of money is that they expect YOU to make money for them! i agree about cuts and the deaths, and the drug abuse. but then its all about the person, if you want to raise to the challenge then you'll be rewarded.

They also don't expect you to make a a loss for them. 'Real money' is a sum more than new traders get to trade with. They don't pay exhilarating amounts of money if you are crap.

Seriously getting a job in FO does not mean that you have made it.

uthinkilltellu

if you want to raise to the challenge then you'll be rewarded.

You talk about rising to the challenge! What a silly statement, I would think that all these mega high fliers whom went to the best universities would have already done so, did they land a job in FO by accident? and now they are just gonna chill? or maybe they are a bit tired of rising to the challenge. Don't you think that every single person in FO has the same idea of themselves as you? Yet many still lose their jobs.

uthinkilltellu

but then its all about the person,

Wow! finally something that is true!

Reply 32

Mos Def

He's a trader, and i don't know how true it is, but he says he was started on 50k, meh i don't get these BarCap people, tons of them say weird figures like that.

last year i've heard (and seen) that for internships barcap pays 900/week +1000 housing allowance. merrills paid 760/week and 1100 housing allowance. (which is 39,520). one guy i know was p1ssed off because after accepting merrills grad offer he found out that he'll be on only 37k (less than what he was on in the summer) (he is in FO FX). gutted! :biggrin:

what does your mate/brother do?

rbs pays something like 60k. but i guess the pay check has to pull in the best if the brand name doesn't :wink:

Reply 33

uthinkilltellu

last year i've heard (and seen) that for internships barcap pays 900/week +1000 housing allowance. merrills paid 760/week and 1100 housing allowance. (which is 39,520). one guy i know was p1ssed off because after accepting merrills grad offer he found out that he'll be on only 37k (less than what he was on in the summer) (he is in FO FX). gutted! :biggrin:

what does your mate/brother do?

rbs pays something like 60k. but i guess the pay check has to pull in the best if the brand name doesn't :wink:

And GS pays the least as the brand name pulls in the people. I think hes in FI i am not sure. Your in your 1st year at Manc?

Reply 34

i can't believe it, i have to defend investment banking against an actuary, the person with the least glamorous job on the planet! what is the world coming to? :eek:

Masucha

'Real money' is a sum more than new traders get to trade with.

and you'd know that how????

not everyone will become a prop trader. but speculation is not trading and what market maker traders do is price and execute client's orders and keep a constant flow of liquidity.

Masucha

Seriously getting a job in FO does not mean that you have made it.

no, it doesn't. did i say so? what i was getting at is that being a trader (in my oppinion) has MANY MANY (MANY) more perks than being an actuary.

Masucha

You talk about rising to the challenge! What a silly statement, I would think that all these mega high fliers whom went to the best universities would have already done so, did they land a job in FO by accident?

from what i have seen, some did, yes. but i don't see what that has to do with rising to the challenge of hard work, long hours and people like you?
and also how many highfliers you get in acturial science? :wink:

none.

Masucha

and now they are just gonna chill?

what else would they do? what would you have them do? they certainly deserve to.

Masucha

Don't you think that every single person in FO has the same idea of themselves as you? Yet many still lose their jobs.

so, what is my idea of myself, then, Freud?

I don't know. BUT I have found a lot in common with majority of FO people I have spoken with, does that answer your question?

Masucha

Wow! finally something that is true!

why would i lie? :s-smilie:

and more importantly, why would you doubt my integrity? all i've done is give my point of view in a satiracaly palatable way!!!

Reply 35

Mos Def

And GS pays the least as the brand name pulls in the people. I think hes in FI i am not sure. Your in your 1st year at Manc?

you've got it! but they pay the highest bonuses (or so i've heard).

good for him, he's in a right place then. barcap is (apparently) one of the best for FI trading.

Mos Def

Your in your 1st year at Manc?

how dare you insult me so? :eek:

Reply 36