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A Levels and German Abitur equivalent

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Reply 80
Original post by amy-zing
Thanks a lot, that's really helpful! Sounds great and that's a nice idea to do it over summer, I'll consider that! The baby-speaking site looks good, I'm just on it. Did you do it through a company? Wow, what Uni are you going to and what will you study? I'm not sure when I would like to be an au pair but as xmarilynx said it seems it really would be too much to do both at the same time.

My idea was that then I could cut down living costs as I would be staying in their house and working for them, to pay my rent sort of thing. Where are you planning to stay when you go to Uni there?


Hmmm, not sure if I've done the quoting right, we'll see when I post it. Doing it over the holidays is better I think cause you get the same experience, without it encroaching on your work, and also the children you're with are home. I did mine through a friend, the baby-sitting thing I just found while interneting. I'm probably going to go to Rouen, doing Applied Foreign Languages. It's a nice idea about the living costs thing... I'm just not sure you'd get work cause they'd want full-time people. But hey you can try - I should go for the babysitting though, cause that tends to be just evenings and pays reasonably well. The English lessons are a nice idea too, or anything else you could give lessons in, other languages, music, sport etc. Nathanielle is right, you can get a placement with an old person, they do do that in France- they'll give you bed and board in return for help around the house and such. There is probably a company, but I'm not sure - you could look into it. I think when I go to uni I'll just get standard uni lodging and do any odd jobs I can find to pay my way. If all else fails you could ask your parents for a loan, repayable once you get a job or something.

Incidentally, do you know how much the fees are at French uni? I can't seem to find out. Thanks,

Amaybury
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by amaybury
...


Well, I just wanted to say, that you posted accidently in the wrong thread. This one is about Abitur and A Levels, not about Au-Pair in France.
Reply 82
Original post by Nathanielle
Well, I just wanted to say, that you posted accidently in the wrong thread. This one is about Abitur and A Levels, not about Au-Pair in France.


Do you have any idea how I can move the thread back? Thanks!
Reply 83
Original post by amaybury
Hmmm, not sure if I've done the quoting right, we'll see when I post it. Doing it over the holidays is better I think cause you get the same experience, without it encroaching on your work, and also the children you're with are home. I did mine through a friend, the baby-sitting thing I just found while interneting. I'm probably going to go to Rouen, doing Applied Foreign Languages. It's a nice idea about the living costs thing... I'm just not sure you'd get work cause they'd want full-time people. But hey you can try - I should go for the babysitting though, cause that tends to be just evenings and pays reasonably well. The English lessons are a nice idea too, or anything else you could give lessons in, other languages, music, sport etc. Nathanielle is right, you can get a placement with an old person, they do do that in France- they'll give you bed and board in return for help around the house and such. There is probably a company, but I'm not sure - you could look into it. I think when I go to uni I'll just get standard uni lodging and do any odd jobs I can find to pay my way. If all else fails you could ask your parents for a loan, repayable once you get a job or something.

Incidentally, do you know how much the fees are at French uni? I can't seem to find out. Thanks,

Amaybury


I think holidays may be a good idea, won't have time this year though. Maybe I'll leave Uni for a bit and do a gap year in France doing things like this. Well thanks for finding that site! Cool, what job do you think you'd like to go into?

I was looking at this website 'A Star Future' recommended by the Welfare woman at college. On there you can look at Uni fees. For France it says per year the courses can range between £80-£500 which is insane! A guy from that website came in to col the other day and he said you have to be careful in France as the Unis which are this cheap are cheap for a reason! A lot fo the time he said, you get huge class sizes or the tutors over there are naff. He said you're best looking for a private Uni over there, which can be a similar cost to English Unis anyway :/. Maybe check out the site though!

Amy
Original post by amy-zing
Do you have any idea how I can move the thread back? Thanks!

No. But Copy&paste to post it again in the other thread is probably faster.
Reply 85
Will reply in the other thread now :biggrin:
Reply 86
The two threads seem to be somehow linked? Confused.
Reply 87
I think my computers screwed up
This isnt intirely on topic but I wasnt sure where else to post it...

I'm really hoping to spend a year abroad in italy in my third year (i'm currently in my first year) but the current courses offered are partly in italian... I don't speak italian. Are the EILCs good enought to let me do this? Obviously the basics I can learn myself...

Does the study abroad year count as your third year of your degree or do you have to do that after?
Because I enrolled in a english and creative writing BA course at hull in 2009 and left before christmas. I didnt have to pay tuition fees or anything and I repaid all my student loans and grants in full to SF, I'm now in my first year of a international relaions and politics degree at DMU and am worried that I wont get any student finance help for my third year because of the mess up with hull.
(I've been told that apparently you only get 4 years of potential funding from SF, and that applying and enrolling at hull counted as one year even thought I paid it all back as soon as I left Hull. although this was told to me by a friend not by student fiance itself.)

if this is so then money would be a big problem for me...

Don't suppose anyone knows anything about this?
Thanks :smile:
I would create a new thread and the question considering student finance is probably better and faster answered in a thread considering Universities in General or in a Finance one.
Reply 90
Original post by Nathanielle
Okay, but you have to admit, that your last post sounded a little bit differently.

And one hint: There are universities in Germany, where you don't need perfect grades for Medicine, maybe not Heidelberg, but...

Hm, but Germans aren't the only ones, who don't know the concept of predicted grades. But maybe it calms you, when you know, that German students have their problems, too, with applying abroad and that the number of 1.0 students differs greatly from school to school.


Actually, students with a 1,0 are even more rare than you think :wink: In my school (and it has quite a high standard) around 25% of graduates had a final grade between 1 and 1,9, but none achieved a 1,0. I think 1,3 was the best.
Reply 91
This is the official document I just recieved from the authority which converts the grades: Zeuknisanerkenungsstelle. It is in German and I am very surprised to see that an A is equivalent to 1.6! This is absolutely ridiculous, the formula they use needs rectification. If true then apparently their uni requirements for subjects like Medicine are even higher than Oxford and Cambridge's. People should point this out so that the conversion system is a better reflection of your true achievement.

" Modus für die Berechnung der Gesamtnote bei Vorlage von GCE Advanced Level, GCE
Advanced Subsidiary Level Prüfungen bzw. dem AICE:

a) Prüfungstermin ab Sommer 2010
b) Prüfungstermin bis Januar 2010
c) Prüfungstermine bis Januar 2010 und ab Sommer 2010
Vorlage von GCE-A/AS Level aus beiden Prüfungszeiträumen

a) Prüfungstermin ab Sommer 2010

Für den Hochschulzugang wurde im GCE Advanced Level die Note A* eingeführt, der im
UCAS-Tariff der Punktwert 140 zugeordnet wurde.

Auszug aus dem "UCAS-Tariff" (2010)

GCE AS-
Level

GCE A-Level

A*

A

B

C

D

A

B

C

D

E

Für die Berechnung der deutschen Gesamtnote sind zunächst die erreichten Noten im GCE A
/ AS Level in Punktwerte umzuwandeln.
Die ermittelten Punktzahlen werden - unabhängig davon, ob sie im Advanced oder Advanced
Subsidiary Level erworben werden - addiert. Die so erreichte Punktzahl kann gemäß
der modifizierten bayerischen Formel bei

Nmax = 480 Punkte (Variante 1)
(3 Fächer im A Level mit Grade A*, 1 Fach im AS Level mit Grade A)

bzw.

Nmax = 460 Punkte (Variante 2)
(2 Fächer im A Level mit Grade A*, 3 Fächer im AS Level mit Grade A)

und

Nmin = 140 Punkte
(3 Fächer im A Level mit Grade E, 1 Fach im AS Level mit Grade E bzw. 2 Fächer im A
Level mit Grade E, 3 Fächer im AS Level mit Grade E)

in eine deutsche Gesamtnote umgerechnet werden.

E

Tariff Points

140

120

100

80

60

50

40

30

20

Beispiel für die Durchführung der Gesamtnotenberechnung gemäß Variante 1:

GCE Advanced Level

Mathematik

Biologie

Erdkunde

A*

B

E

C

GCE Advanced Subsidiary Level Französisch

Gesamtpunktzahl

Die Umrechnung der Punktzahl des "UCAS-Tariff" nach der bayerischen Formel ergibt:

DN = 1 + 3 x (Nmax - erreichte Pkt.)
(Nmax - Nmin)

DN = 1 + 3 x (480 - 320) = 2,4
(480 - 140)

Die so errechnete deutsche Gesamtnote beträgt 2,4."

I would appreciate it, if Medical students from UK studying in Germany could comment on how they applied with their A level grades after the A* was introduced and how they managed to get into the Uni, despite this absurd incorrect conversion formula.
Reply 92
Original post by Amir Raza
This is the official document I just recieved from the authority which converts the grades: Zeuknisanerkenungsstelle. It is in German and I am very surprised to see that an A is equivalent to 1.6! This is absolutely ridiculous, the formula they use needs rectification. If true then apparently their uni requirements for subjects like Medicine are even higher than Oxford and Cambridge's. People should point this out so that the conversion system is a better reflection of your true achievement.

I would appreciate it, if Medical students from UK studying in Germany could comment on how they applied with their A level grades after the A* was introduced and how they managed to get into the Uni, despite this absurd incorrect conversion formula.


The formula is not incorrect, it realistically reflects the differences in the educational system - the German Abitur is simply harder than A-levels. If you look at the entry requirements for medicine at German universities, you will recognise that most want something between 1.0 and 1.3. If we assume AS-level A*A*A*A* with A-level A*A*A* to be the highest German grade 1.0, then yes, some German universities are more difficult to get into for medicine (or even psychology) than Oxford. They don't require interviews, references and statements though.

It would be easier if you told us your grades though, I could not figure them out from your post.
Original post by Amir Raza
...


Yes, the entry requirements for Medicine and Psychology can get/are at the moment ridiculously high. I can assure you, a lot of German students have the same problem. It is a simple question of demand and supply. (You also have to take the double cohorts into account due to the recent reduction of school years in Bavaria, Baden-Württemberg and Nord-Rhein-Westphalen, the biggest Länder. Thus it is likely that in some years the grade boundaries will drop again.) Nevertheless Oxbridge isn't the be and all end regarding entry requirements, even in the UK.

If you look at the percentage of points you need to have to get a 1.0 and a 1.6 and compare it to A Levels, then the grade conversion doesn't seem to be too harsh.

Another point regarding the comparison of A Levels and the Abitur is the smaller amount of choice a German student has compared to the English student and the non-existance of resits in Germany. Nevertheless for the grade conversion this is not taken into account and 1.6 is also in Germany still a very, very good Abitur and not bad at all, so don't complain!

PS.: The current NCs for all German Universities: http://www.hochschulstart.de/fileadmin/downloads/NC/WiSe2012_13/Medizin_NC_WS_2012_13.pdf and e.g. here http://www.hochschulstart.de/index.php?id=3222
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 94
Original post by Sir Fox
The formula is not incorrect, it realistically reflects the differences in the educational system - the German Abitur is simply harder than A-levels. If you look at the entry requirements for medicine at German universities, you will recognise that most want something between 1.0 and 1.3. If we assume AS-level A*A*A*A* with A-level A*A*A* to be the highest German grade 1.0, then yes, some German universities are more difficult to get into for medicine (or even psychology) than Oxford. They don't require interviews, references and statements though.

It would be easier if you told us your grades though, I could not figure them out from your post.



Thank you for your response. I am off course expressing myself to the best of my knowledge.

What I am pointing out is that it really sounds unreasonable to achieve something like all A*'s at a levels in every subject for british students to study medicine in Germany. Even the best universities in UK only require A*AAa. Keeping that in mind and the fact that yes German have a tougher system but the conversion system exaggerated this difference way too much. Clearly getting an A* or even A is difficult hence why not many people achieve them. Just because they have more subjects or more work throughout the year doesn't mean that our actual exams aren't just as hard.
Look at the formula and notice how they multiply the amount of percentage less than the maximum by 3. How can you justify that as a fair conversion.

Finally to Anser your question, I achieved 3A's to A2 in Bio, Chem and Physics. As well as further 3A's in maths, German and Urdu. My only question is whether it is reasonable for me to apply for Medicine in Germany. Thank you very much in advance for any help or tips and once again I am not here to disrespect any one these are simply the points I was thinking when I saw that conversion formula not being fair to Uk students.
Reply 95
Original post by Amir Raza
What I am pointing out is that it really sounds unreasonable to achieve something like all A*'s at a levels in every subject for british students to study medicine in Germany. Even the best universities in UK only require A*AAa.


The problem in this case is easily explained by demand and supply. We all know that some A*A*A* students will make horrible doctors and there are students with ABB (or 2.0 in Germany) who are desperate to study medicine and would make a perfect doctor.

But the reality is that the German numerus clausus (NC) is not exactly similar to UK entry requirements. In the UK universities generate a pool of applicants by stating certain grade requirements and then make selections based on statements, references and sometimes interviews. Many applicants are then rejected.

The German NC is generated by taking all applicants into consideration and then allocating the few places available ('few' in comparison to the scores of applicants) to those with the highest grades.

That's the reason why the grade requirements are so high, universities have to take those with the best grades and if 1,000 people with grades ranging from 1.0-1.2 apply on 1,000 places, everyone with 1.3 or worse will be automatically rejected.

Finally to Anser your question, I achieved 3A's to A2 in Bio, Chem and Physics. As well as further 3A's in maths, German and Urdu.


This again baffles me. Clearly AAA is way better than a German 2.4, I had 2.2 in my Abitur which many UK universities rated as equivalent to ABB - BBB.

If you say 'further 3 A's in ...' does it mean AS-levels? The problem with the British system is that it does not necessarily cover all areas the Abitur has to cover. In his final years at school a German student mostly takes in excess of 7 subjects (I had 9) and takes exams in 4 to 5 of them. In these exams three main areas have to be covered: natural sciences or mathematics, social scienes (e.g. history, sociology etc.) and languages (German, Italian, English, French etc.). I for example had written exams in history, German and chemistry and an oral exam in English.

In your case I see 4 natural sciences or mathematics and two languages, in your A2-levels solely natural sciences. This does not technically fulfill the requirements of the German Abitur. I con only speculate, but could it be that they rated your overall grade down for this reason?

Anyway, AAA clearly doesn't translate to 2.4, I would rate it in the range of 1.3-1.5.

My only question is whether it is reasonable for me to apply for Medicine in Germany.


I would contact the Zeugnisanerkennungsstelle again to inquire about that and contact some of the major universities directly, they should have some experience with UK applicants.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Amir Raza
....

Beispiel für die Durchführung der Gesamtnotenberechnung gemäß Variante 1:

GCE Advanced Level

Mathematik

Biologie

Erdkunde

A*

B

E

C

GCE Advanced Subsidiary Level Französisch

Gesamtpunktzahl

Die Umrechnung der Punktzahl des "UCAS-Tariff" nach der bayerischen Formel ergibt:

DN = 1 + 3 x (Nmax - erreichte Pkt.)
(Nmax - Nmin)

DN = 1 + 3 x (480 - 320) = 2,4
(480 - 140)

Die so errechnete deutsche Gesamtnote beträgt 2,4."

....


The 2.4 isn't your grade, but the grade of the example? Am I right? Thus having AAAAAA will be a 1,6, or?

Anyway, I wanted to give you that link: http://www.stgeorgesschool.de/media/parents/SGSC_US_University%20Guide_110909.pdf It may answer some of your questions and allow you to recalculate your grades.

Nevertheless when you have other questions then it would be easier to help you (of course some question you are only able to get an answer contacting the relevant Behörden/institutions) having precise answers or your actual grade.
Original post by Sir Fox
...

Anyway, AAA clearly doesn't translate to 2.4, I would rate it in the range of 1.3-1.5.



I would contact the Zeugnisanerkennungsstelle again to inquire about that and contact some of the major universities directly, they should have some experience with UK applicants.


1. AAA is not as high. (You need around 80% to get an A. We have already discussed that in this thread, beginning with post 38.) The new conversion takes the introduction of the A* into account.

2. I think the 2,4 relates to the given example in the text, not his grade.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 98
Hahaha, thank you for the kind advice everyone.


I never stated that 2.4 is what it translates to, it was just an example I received from Zeugnisanerkenungstelle about an example A level result which clearly isn't mine.

The problem is that for example I have actually achieved around 88 % in all my subjects yet the conversion formula would not take it into account. In fact it would use something around 80 to 85%.

The second point which you haven't addressed is that getting 80% + in a UK exam can not be compared to getting 80%+ in Germany. I know Germans have more subjects to revise for but that doesn't mean that each subjects on its own is harder as well compared to UK standards.

Lastly, can people please stop saying whatever They like and than make a statement to make it sound as though I said it.

I hope we can continue this discussion in a progressive manner and benefit from it. So my question now is that, have there been students after 2011 from Uk with results like mine (AAAaaa) which have been able to get into German Universities to study Medicine? Or are there other students like me in the same boat who may have something useful to add?
Original post by Amir Raza
... So my question now is that, have there been students after 2011 from Uk with results like mine (AAAaaa) which have been able to get into German Universities to study Medicine? Or are there other students like me in the same boat who may have something useful to add?


I would prefer fairer conversions for both sides (LSE has e.g. totally ridiculous conversions), too. On the other hand, I think, the UMS scores are not taken into account by most UK universities either, so they probably saw no need?

Anyway: Have you read my post with the number 94? I put in a link, where you can see, at which universities you have a chance to get in with 1.6. It is a bit complicated to found out, which are the right choices, but it is doable. As your grade matters the most and this one is determined by the "Zeugnisanerkennungsstelle", this will give you the best prediction where you have chances and where you will -sometimes almost definitely-get a place. At the end there is allways the Losverfahren, but I doubt they let foreigners in by this at every university. (It's because the Losverfahren requires you to be studying at university within one or two days in the middle of the semester.)
(edited 11 years ago)

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