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waiting2smile
I disagree.

Did anyone find the historical notes provided a better conclusion to the story than did Offred's account? When Pieixoto revealed Nick was a member of Mayday, and that he did indeed attempt to get Offred out of the country I finally stopped crying my eyes out. :redface:


Yes - it offered a more complete history of events. But that's not everything. The point is that the emphasis shifts from her to the men. In part the book confronts sexist attitudes. The men at the end are making all these sexist jokes. They may offer a more complete account, but it is not her account.
waiting2smile
Again I disagree. That isn't the message presented in the historical notes. Offred’s story is almost trivialized and is insignificant in their admiration of the Commander and their glorification of Gilead. Furthermore whilst she inwardly resisted the system, it was ineffectual resistance, she didn't escape because of that. Her escape was due to her passivity and sheer luck. She made no attempt to save herself, even when given the opportunity. In fact the overall impression I got was - rebellion is inconsequential especially on the part of one indiviudal. There is no hope, the novel is merely a warning.


Hope manifests itself throughout the novel in many different ways. Even from the very beginning of the novel the handmaids have clung to their old names, symbolising their stoicism and independence. There names symbolise their individulaity in the face of an incredibly oppressive regime. This gives hope.

Throughout the novel, Atwood [over] uses symbolism to both prophesy doom and convey hope. I think the novel has a powerful message, and is incredibly well-written. The introduction of Serena Joy, for example, enables consideration of our own world. Unlike many fantasy and science-fiction novels, our own world is not glamourised.
Reply 22
You dont find out offred's real name do you? or have i just forgotten?
Reply 23
I never said I disliked the novel, or Atwood, just gathering some opinions on the book. Have you read Life Before Man or The Robber Bride?
Reply 24
but pornography is still repression of women right? that's still in existence
Reply 25
waiting2smile
I thought that was a very clever narrative technique, it certainly kept me waiting in anticipation. Though I agree with the ending being a major disappointment. :frown:


What did you expect? For the repression to go away? It's still here in society today... pornography, anti-abortionists, abortionists for that matter...
CharleeB
You dont find out offred's real name do you? or have i just forgotten?


No, you don't, but you find out other names- e.g. the commander's wife. I think not finding out Offred's name is a clear structural ploy by Atwood to create a barrier between Offred and the reader.
Reply 27
CharleeB
You dont find out offred's real name do you? or have i just forgotten?


In the first chapter she goes through a list of handmaid's names and the last one isn't mentioned again in the book... I drew the conclusion that that was her name

Has anyone read Alias Grace or The Blind Assassin? I enjoyed those a lot more :smile:
Reply 28
Cabby
In the first chapter she goes through a list of handmaid's names and the last one isn't mentioned again in the book... I drew the conclusion that that was her name

Has anyone read Alias Grace or The Blind Assassin? I enjoyed those a lot more :smile:

June, isn't it? You never know. I think that the lack of knowledge regarding Offred's name confirms the 'observer' nature of the reader. Like Piexioto, the reader is purusing Offred's story with some form of emotional disattachment.
rachied
What did you expect? For the repression to go away? It's still here in society today... pornography, anti-abortionists, abortionists for that matter...

I was expecting a conclusive end, whether it was the 'end' or 'a new beginning' dear. I didn't particularly like the ambiguity (so please drop the attacking tone, it's my own personal opinion!) or the defeatist attitude. She could have escaped the situation but she was too cowardly to attempt any of the possible options presented.
tomcoolinguk
Hope manifests itself throughout the novel in many different ways. Even from the very beginning of the novel the handmaids have clung to their old names, symbolising their stoicism and independence. There names symbolise their individulaity in the face of an incredibly oppressive regime. This gives hope.


Passive resistance is nothing. It’s ineffectual. It’s hopeless, all you maintain is some of your integrity but your situation has not changed.
waiting2smile
I was expecting a conclusive end, whether it was the 'end' or 'a new beginning' dear. I didn't particularly like the ambiguity (so please drop the attacking tone, it's my own personal opinion!) or the defeatist attitude. She could have escaped the situation but she was too cowardly to attempt any of the possible options presented.


would you argue it's not a feminist novel then? :redface:
Reply 32
little_melanie
would you argue it's not a feminist novel then? :redface:

It's a humanist novel (sorry W2s, I'm being interjectory). Extreme feminists (Offred's mother for example) are presented just as badly as their male antithesis. Atwood is encouraging tolerance - and if desire for gender equality is feminism, then I suppose that the novel can be classified as such.
Mr White
It's a humanist novel (sorry W2s, I'm being interjectory). Extreme feminists (Offred's mother for example) are presented just as badly as their male antithesis. Atwood is encouraging tolerance - and if desire for gender equality is feminism, then I suppose that the novel can be classified as such.


I don't mind you interjecting. I think it depends on how you look at it. Although several feminist concerns are raised, such as the issue of survival, I wouldn't class it as a feminist novel at all. Perhaps that’s because I tend to look at how Offred is presented rather than looking at is as a feminist critique of reactionary attitudes towards women. As already mentioned Atwood tends to criticise the feminist left similarities between the oppressors of Gilead and radical feminists like Offred’s mother is drawn (both restrict free speech, ban expressions of sexuality, etc). Additionally Offred is not a heroine; she was hardly proud or comfortable with her mother’s activism. Her pre-Gilead relationship isn’t exactly a glowing reflection of a feminist and her submissiveness, complacency and general passivity shows how she like many other women took for granted the freedom they once had. Furthermore in the novel the novel - women support Gilead’s existence by willingly participating in it (Serena Joy namely, The aunts = indoctrinate, Offred herself finds life bearable when allowed small freedoms). They serve as agents of the totalitarian state as long as they have some form of power/freedom regardless of how little it is.
waiting2smile
I don't mind you interjecting. I think it depends on how you look at it. Although several feminist concerns are raised, such as the issue of survival, I wouldn't class it as a feminist novel at all. Perhaps that’s because I tend to look at how Offred is presented rather than looking at is as a feminist critique of reactionary attitudes towards women. As already mentioned Atwood tends to criticise the feminist left similarities between the oppressors of Gilead and radical feminists like Offred’s mother is drawn (both restrict free speech, ban expressions of sexuality, etc). Additionally Offred is not a heroine; she was hardly proud or comfortable with her mother’s activism. Her pre-Gilead relationship isn’t exactly a glowing reflection of a feminist and her submissiveness, complacency and general passivity shows how she like many other women took for granted the freedom they once had. Furthermore in the novel the novel - women support Gilead’s existence by willingly participating in it (Serena Joy namely, The aunts = indoctrinate, Offred herself finds life bearable when allowed small freedoms). They serve as agents of the totalitarian state as long as they have some form of power/freedom regardless of how little it is.


you speak as if you abhor the novel but some interesting points! :biggrin:
little_melanie
you speak as if you abhor the novel but some interesting points! :biggrin:


I don't. I apologise if that's the way it's come across.
Reply 36
waiting2smile
I don't. I apologise if that's the way it's come across.


I think it's because you're very quick to criticise.
Reply 37
waiting2smile
I was expecting a conclusive end, whether it was the 'end' or 'a new beginning' dear. I didn't particularly like the ambiguity (so please drop the attacking tone, it's my own personal opinion!) or the defeatist attitude. She could have escaped the situation but she was too cowardly to attempt any of the possible options presented.



As is my opinion my own. Have you considered the possibility, that Offred is free internally and thus finds strength inside as opposed to being cowardly, just because she's not active?
BLOODY BLOODY HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i did this book last year, and WTF?? i got an A, but i didnt bother learning any quotes. instead, i just reread the book 100000000 times and attempted to learn all the sentences from each page. i managed about 75% of the whole novel to learn, but for weeks after, the quotes kept popping into my head like for exampled, im meeting my mate in town and i think 'doubled i walk the street'. im late for a driving test and trying to calm down thinking 'myself is something i must compose'

a year later i still cant gfet the quotes out of my head! the bookk is about indoctrination, but that is no different to wat they do to us making us memorise it. *presses her hand over her mouth, the mouth of a dead rodent*...... (aunt lydia)
oh yea guys, totally 100%%%%% learn the symbolism. in particual the images of flowers as feminity + fem power - SJs fem power turned against women by her mainly complying with regime and hat of offred, reflected by the mention of 'when they get old, they explode slowly, turn themselves inside out, petals thrown outward like shards'
the oranges,egg,furnature are also sybolic

can i say, this is the last year THT is on the syllabus so Serena Joy is defo gonna come up and probably so is doubles.

i got a hard one on the theme of survival, but got 96% by talking about symbolism :smile:

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