[Ourkid]

Hello all,

I've got something on my chest I just wanted to vent, and here seems like a good place to get multiple neutral responses on the situation.

I've just finished my first year of chemistry with mathematics. I really enjoyed both subjects at A Level, but this year has kind of dented my enthusiasm for both for various reasons both academic and social.

Chemistry was structured perfectly for me at a level, and despite course descriptions and outlines, you can't really tell how it is going to be once you get there.

Originally I wanted nothing more than to be at imperial. I missed my grade by 3 UMS in physics - 3 ums from AAAb and acceptance to do chemical engineering.

Instead, I decided to take up my insurance which was AABb chemistry with mathematics at ucl. The first few weeks were fine in terms of the course, everything working as it should. The first term in fact went rather well, I got a 2:1 at the mid terms.

I came to UCL expecting to just get on with my work, do well, stay slightly quiet, get on with things; let the people who wanted to get wasted every night do so, and just do what needed to be done.

I tried that for the first term - in lectures 9am, leaving uni after lectures, revising the days work and going over the next days work afterwards, going to all labs, doing all work by deadlines required etc.

As a result I didn't make too many friends - one or two from my course. This hit me rather hard - I love having people around and did so pretty much till I left school. The following few months I kind of went into my shell. I ended up not wanting to be alone (the only time I could work) and so ended up spending all my time with people from halls.

The second term courses did not live up to my expectations. The maths department was a shambles. We got given, for a full course unit, a lecturer who could barely speek english, and could not teach maths. He was an excellent mathematician, and generally a nice guy, he just could not teach maths.

The course organisation was very poor too. We weren't given any detailed syllabi, except a bullet point saying 'differentiation' or 'power series' and left at that. We weren't given any handouts explaining the basics, we weren't taught it, and weren't told exactly what we needed to know.

A large proportion of the chemistry lecturers were boring in their lectures - very monotonous, and were exactly like the bad teachers from school. They weren't as helpful as I had expected. Friends had always told me (because I took a gap year while they went onto their first year courses) that university was being treated like an adult, being able to talk to lecturers, and pretty much all of them bar 3 were very unapproachable.

The second term work was rather bad. The more abstract it got, the more I realised that chemistry might not be for me. This is by no means a cop out ('oh it got hard, so chem might not suit me'). I started to struggle with the concepts, and made a fatal error of deciding I had enough time to be able to pick things up again if i took maybe a few weeks off.

Also rather important, is the fact that I'm not just saying this now that my exams are over, and haven't gone all that well, and the idea of escaping from the whole situation looks appealing. I have been flirting with the idea for probably 2 months.

Labs also picked up in the second term - first term was 1 session per week lasting 3.5 hours, with a single handout. Second term jumped to 12 hours a week, over two sessions for 18 weeks in total. labs were always boring, always required a lot of standing and watching for the slightest of colour changes, and a long write up at the end. All of which was very boring, and rarely reinforced work from lectures; though in fairness had it done so, the link was always so tenuous that I doubt it would have been worth it or even noticable.

Labs have always been poor in that we're working in a dirty lab, which is very old, with maybe 3 demonstrators/helpers between a full lab of about 150 people from 3 different years all doing their practicals together. Whenever one would need help, you'd have to wait for at least 15-20 mins before they came over, so potentially asking for a simple clarification of a step which hadn't been explained well could take 20 mins to resolve.

Most of the time however, the demonstrators would just give the answer then move on without taking time to help you understand why for example, you would add 10cm3 of acid even though it's not said in the manual. Of course you could go to a lecturer and ask, but for a menial problem, with fairly unapproachable lecturers (bar 3) it seemed a bit pointless.

Labs used to finish at 6pm on tuesday and thursday, which meant that I'd be knackered on tuesday, wednesday, thursday and friday, and I used to have work on saturday leaving me fairly little time to actually enjoy life.

Of course, by the second term it was obviously too late to change courses, and I couldn't drop out, because I'm not that kind of person. This meant that I could see the year out, or drop out, go home, get labelled a 'drop out' by parents, and still be unsure what to do with life.

My unhappiness being a) not where I wanted to be, b) not studying what I had originally intended, c) not enjoying life inside/outside of the academia I was in, and d) struggling with the course in general, has meant that now I am confused, and unsure what to do.

I'm pretty certain I'll get a third, or a 2:2 if im very lucky. Thinking this only dents my enthusiasm for chemistry even more than before.

My choices are to:
1) look at a new course at the same uni, and see if I can transfer over.

This is hindered because I did chemistry (A), physics (B) and maths (A) at A level (and a B in Biology AS), which means that any non science courses won't see any evidence of being good at such subject.

Also acceptance onto a different course for next year really depends on how well I do this year. If I do rubbish this year my chances for changing over are quite slim.

2) Drop out from uni for next year, take my time to decide what I want to do, maybe take a few more A levels, and then take it from there. However, this is an immense waste, as I've got all my debts from this year, plus my gap year last year, and essentially two years have been wasted before I've even started my degree.

This (if time and money was not an issue) has probably got more chance of landing me on the perfect course for me, but I can't afford to waste another year, have another years worth of debt, have a blackspot on my record for employment and even then still not be able to figure it out.

3) Drop out of uni completely: not really an option in the current employment market, unless I tried to do something entrepreneurial - but I don't think at this stage in my life I can hinge the rest of my life on make or break idea(s). At least with a degree I'll have a solid foundation, so that if I decided to try and become an entrepreneur I could always fall back on having that academic background.

4) Stick it out despite the problems and the first year mishaps to just try again and hope next year is better than this year, covering a wider range of more interesting topics, with a bit more organisation. I still might carry it on if it seems like the right idea.

I'm not BAD at chemistry per se, I have just rather disliked this first year, at a uni I don't like, on a course which I don't think is set out appropriately for me, with people I don't like.

An important note to those of you who made it this far - none of these issues alone were enough to dishearten me. If it was just labs that was the problem, or just a few concepts I struggled with then it would have been fine, but everything has just gone tits up, and I mean everything. It's all culminated into a brown mush of dislike towards this whole period so far in my life.

Another problem is that at A level I was good at chemistry, and because I was good at it (personally it was due to the structure and the way it was taught), it seemed like a good thing to go into. However, part of me was looking at the name of the degree and thinking 'hmmm on paper this looks fabulous' and for a while it didn't click that it's something I'm going to have to study for the next four years. It didn't click for a while that my day in day out situation would revolve around chemistry for a long while. At the crux of it I don't think my heart is really in chemistry.

Obviously I want to do a good course that will get me a good job in the future, and chem and maths does that, but I still need to enjoy it for the next 3, otherwise I'll do badly, and miss out on the good job. I.e. *******s for nothing.

It doesn't help that I've been living with 10ish people who all enjoy their courses, and can avidly talk about their courses with a true passion. This is something I'm rather lacking, and something I think is very important to have. I'm almost at envy when I'd like to be able to say 'yeah man I love my course - oh I had an excellent lecture today on....'
For me that just cannot be done.

I'm confused. Any opinions?

Thanks for reading.

Ourkid

(PS. this is not an overview for prospective students coming to ucl - it's a personal experience, and should be treated as such)

[laughingwithpicasso]

If I was in your position, I'd have to change and do something I can be motivated and enthused about and it seems chemistry isn't offering that to you. I think you should talk to an adviser about possibly changing course.

[suek]

Originally Posted by Ourkid

2) Drop out from uni for next year, take my time to decide what I want to do, maybe take a few more A levels, and then take it from there. However, this is an immense waste, as I've got all my debts from this year, plus my gap year last year, and essentially two years have been wasted before I've even started my degree.

This (if time and money was not an issue) has probably got more chance of landing me on the perfect course for me, but I can't afford to waste another year, have another years worth of debt, have a blackspot on my record for employment and even then still not be able to figure it out.

It's not a blackspot. You went to uni, you completed a year in a course you didn't enjoy and you made a mature, reasoned decision to change. At least, that's how it would be in the future, if you took that road.

As for the debt - 'so what?' - you only pay it back when you're earning over £15k, it's not a huge amount from your future paycheck.

It'd be FAR more expensive to stick it out another year and all, or make a rash 'less expensive' decision, and THEN want to change...

You could take a gap year, your A Levels will still be relevant for applications the following year, but if you fancy something more social or arty, sure, why not pick something else up. I did my A Levels in 2004 and got accepted unconditionally to unis this year. Some unis require more recent study - within three years, which you will fit into - others are up to five.

Why not take time out, work for a year, get some money to help ease your worries about debts, really think about what your ideal course choice would be, pickup a part time or evening course A Level or AS Level in the meantime.

[andy_cole2]

if you went into uni next year and did a normal degree you'd finish after 3 years and thus leave the same time as on this masters course your doing. also summarise it you didn't need to write so much. also whats wrong with moving onto straight maths. i don't think unapproachable lecturers makes you unique or different. most of mine are like that, did yout ry seeing them in office hours because by the rules they have to be in their office to help you during office hours.

[Ywiss]

If you're not into chemistry, do you have any idea of what subject you would like to do? Just ignoring the fact that you might not have the right A-levels, etc for the moment..

[crema]

I think you better chat to the personal tutors or anyone you think might be able to help you with changing your course. If you don't like chemistry anymore see if you could change it to someone else, like maybe maths or engineering. They do expect you to get a fairly good grades during your first year if you want to change but then again, they do recognise that if you hate your subject you're not gonna get good grades either so.

Regarding lecturers being unattainable, well, that's pretty much all unis for you. Some of them are nicer but most of them care about ther research more than teaching undergrads.

Regarding your social time in UCL, well, if you don't get out of your room and only revise it's no wonder your social life makes you miserable. Try again next year and join as many socs as possible and persist with them, even if at first it seems you don't get that many friends. There are socs for pretty much any purpose, but you better join socs that actively do something like sports, or theater, AIESEC, St John etc. Or ULU socs if you wanna meet people outside your uni.

[Ourkid]

Firstly thank you all for all the replies, it is really appreciated.

If I was in your position, I'd have to change and do something I can be motivated and enthused about and it seems chemistry isn't offering that to you. I think you should talk to an adviser about possibly changing course.

In an ideal world I would be changing now, but I feel slightly stuck in the middle because a year of my life is going to go to waste if i change, but if i don't change I may not do well unless I develop a passion for chemistry over the summer.

I will be speaking to someone regarding this very soon. Thanks.

It's not a blackspot. You went to uni, you completed a year in a course you didn't enjoy and you made a mature, reasoned decision to change. At least, that's how it would be in the future, if you took that road.

That's a fair point.

As for the debt - 'so what?' - you only pay it back when you're earning over £15k, it's not a huge amount from your future paycheck.

I don't agree with 'so what?' simply because it's still debt. Debt isn't something I particularly want. It isn't exactly a couple of hundred quid where it won't make much difference - this year alone is costing me 6K loan, and 3K fees as well as living expenses - about 11-12k in total. Not a small sum at all. However, it's might be worthwhile.
I'm sure by now you've figured out exactly how confused I am

It'd be FAR more expensive to stick it out another year and all, or make a rash 'less expensive' decision, and THEN want to change...

Quite possibly. It's a scary decision to make, but one that needs to be made

You could take a gap year, your A Levels will still be relevant for applications the following year, but if you fancy something more social or arty, sure, why not pick something else up. I did my A Levels in 2004 and got accepted unconditionally to unis this year. Some unis require more recent study - within three years, which you will fit into - others are up to five.

Why not take time out, work for a year, get some money to help ease your worries about debts, really think about what your ideal course choice would be, pickup a part time or evening course A Level or AS Level in the meantime.

This is one of the ideas I'm looking at, but I'm not sure. I think once I've spoken to an advisor things might look a bit clearer. Just out of interest, and if you don't mind my asking - how come you took time out in between? Thank you for the reply.

if you went into uni next year and did a normal degree you'd finish after 3 years and thus leave the same time as on this masters course your doing. also summarise it you didn't need to write so much. also whats wrong with moving onto straight maths. i don't think unapproachable lecturers makes you unique or different. most of mine are like that, did yout ry seeing them in office hours because by the rules they have to be in their office to help you during office hours.

Yeah a 3 year BA or even a BSc if I could do the change would finish at the same time as this degree.
I apologise for making you read so much. Like I said at the top it was something I had on my chest, and I wanted to vent it. Please feel free to ignore the thread if it's a bit too much for you.

I've never tried to state that I'm unique or different because I have unapproachable lecturers. If that was the only problem I had then it wouldn't matter. It's a culmination of everything I've mentioned. Also, if you're struggling with something, and it seems rather difficult to get help then it doesn't exactly encourage one to pursue it further - personally.

If you're not into chemistry, do you have any idea of what subject you would like to do? Just ignoring the fact that you might not have the right A-levels, etc for the moment..

I've been looking at economics with economic history BSc - I've got an interest in finance, but I'm unsure whether changing courses is just running away from a problem. I've got the standard offer grades to get into somewhere like LSE, but obviously it won't be as easy as that - especially seeing as I've left it so late. I'd like to stay in london as it's a fantastic city.

Regarding your social time in UCL, well, if you don't get out of your room and only revise it's no wonder your social life makes you miserable. Try again next year and join as many socs as possible and persist with them, even if at first it seems you don't get that many friends. There are socs for pretty much any purpose, but you better join socs that actively do something like sports, or theater, AIESEC, St John etc. Or ULU socs if you wanna meet people outside your uni.

I will be trying for societies wherever I am next year. Unfortunately I really didn't have decent time planning or organisation this year.

You guys have defo helped. Thank you very much again.
Ourkid

[WoWZa]

I did Computer Science (with Management) at King's College London for 2 weeks and then transferred. The first lectures were an were an absolute shambles (especially the one on logic). He didn't give any explanation of the fundamentals whatsoever. It was an absolute joke, and they wonder why they have little completion rates. Most people didn't have a clue in the programming lecture and were replying with completely wrong answers (which others were laughing at haha), although he did actually say he wasn't expecting everyone to grasp it just yet, but still!

An institution does influence the course, and individual courses should be researched before making a decision. They tend to bring over foreigners to deliver lectures and teaching material in such subjects due to the limited number of graduates in this country that pursue teaching in such fields.

My advice for you is to wait until you have your results, and then start making decisions. I'm pretty sure other universities will accept you as a direct 2nd year student.

[Minerva]

Ourkid - definitely go and talk to someone who can help sort out your options. Don't just drift into a second year; you only get loans for up to four years so if you did want to start again, you wouldn't get another three years' worth if you had already used up two.

[Petit chou]

If debts are a major problem i'd suggest going to a Uni that isn't in London which is the most expensive city to live in in the UK. Al the debts you got into this year is probably the amount a person gets into after 3 years of a course in a uni not in London.

In terms of the course i think that you should definitely change, there aren't many courses you can't get onto with those a levels but if you wanted to do some essay based a levels i suggest you take a gap year and take 1 or 2 a levels doing AS and A2 in one year so you have a more rounded set of qualifications.

[prospectivEEconomist]

Originally Posted by Ourkid

Firstly thank you all for all the replies, it is really appreciated.


In an ideal world I would be changing now, but I feel slightly stuck in the middle because a year of my life is going to go to waste if i change, but if i don't change I may not do well unless I develop a passion for chemistry over the summer.

I will be speaking to someone regarding this very soon. Thanks.


That's a fair point.

I don't agree with 'so what?' simply because it's still debt. Debt isn't something I particularly want. It isn't exactly a couple of hundred quid where it won't make much difference - this year alone is costing me 6K loan, and 3K fees as well as living expenses - about 11-12k in total. Not a small sum at all. However, it's might be worthwhile.
I'm sure by now you've figured out exactly how confused I am


Quite possibly. It's a scary decision to make, but one that needs to be made

This is one of the ideas I'm looking at, but I'm not sure. I think once I've spoken to an advisor things might look a bit clearer. Just out of interest, and if you don't mind my asking - how come you took time out in between? Thank you for the reply.


Yeah a 3 year BA or even a BSc if I could do the change would finish at the same time as this degree.
I apologise for making you read so much. Like I said at the top it was something I had on my chest, and I wanted to vent it. Please feel free to ignore the thread if it's a bit too much for you.

I've never tried to state that I'm unique or different because I have unapproachable lecturers. If that was the only problem I had then it wouldn't matter. It's a culmination of everything I've mentioned. Also, if you're struggling with something, and it seems rather difficult to get help then it doesn't exactly encourage one to pursue it further - personally.


I've been looking at economics with economic history BSc - I've got an interest in finance, but I'm unsure whether changing courses is just running away from a problem. I've got the standard offer grades to get into somewhere like LSE, but obviously it won't be as easy as that - especially seeing as I've left it so late. I'd like to stay in london as it's a fantastic city.


I will be trying for societies wherever I am next year. Unfortunately I really didn't have decent time planning or organisation this year.

You guys have defo helped. Thank you very much again.
Ourkid

If you have excellent GCSE grades then I would consider applying to LSE/UCL/Warwick for economics, now.

[gillipies]

Originally Posted by Minerva

Ourkid - definitely go and talk to someone who can help sort out your options. Don't just drift into a second year; you only get loans for up to four years so if you did want to start again, you wouldn't get another three years' worth if you had already used up two.

I was told when I changed courses after my first year that you will get funding for the length of your original course, plus one year (allowing for 'false starts' etc like me and potentially OP).

OP - Go and talk to your tutor/student advice centre type thing if you have one at uni and go through your options. You need to sort it out now, if only from a money point of view so you don't start next year and lose another year's loan. Personally I would either change course at the same uni or transfer to a different uni. Don't stay and force yourself to do something your heart isn't in, because as you've said youself you won't do as well as you want to. You might feel you've let yourself down (I know I did) but once you find a course you enjoy, all the hassle now will be worthwhile.

[mimimimi]

Hi, I am having similar doubts about the course I have just completed the first year of. It's not my course, however, it's the university... it's just not for me, and I think I'd be much happier somewhere else. Does anyone know whether I need to tell my uni if I register for clearing via UCAS after 30th June? As if nothing comes up on clearing I suppose I'd stay to feel like I wouldn't be wasting more time, and I'm wondering if applying on UCAS will make me automatically off my current course, or anything?
If anyone could help, I'd greatly appreciate it - I want to know if I'm doing the right thing!

[Angelil]

OP - I was thinking option b before I even got to where you'd typed it. As well as maybe taking another A Level or two at night school during that year, it might be an idea to work as well to reduce some of your debt from the first year. Plus, lots of people will have four years' worth of debt - people who have a year abroad as part of their course, or people on MEng courses, for instance. So you wouldn't be alone there and your age won't be a problem either. Yes, it's disheartening to have to take another year out - but not as disheartening as continuing with a course you aren't getting on with in a place you don't like.

[Ourkid]

Thanks for all the replies.

I've decided to change to another course.

I'm currently looking at accounting and finance.

My grades are: AABb chem, maths, physics and bio.
GCSEs: A*AABBBBBBCC

Do you think my GCSE grades are going to be a hindrance in any application to do accountancy and finance at say, LSE? Where should I be realistically looking given these circumstances?

I'm going to speak to them tomorow but it's always nice to have an idea before speaking to them.

I feel I'm going to be able to articulate the reasons for the change, it just depends on whether they would accept it as being reasonable.

The reason I've chosen accountancy and finance, is because there is a fair bit of economics in it, as well as having management and accountancy methods. I've always thought I'd end up trying to run my own venture so this course would give me the skills required to manage it.

Reading the course spec is filling me with hope, it seems well interesting - I just pray that a good uni will let me in.

[prospectivEEconomist]

Originally Posted by Ourkid

Thanks for all the replies.

I've decided to change to another course.

I'm currently looking at accounting and finance.

My grades are: AABb chem, maths, physics and bio.
GCSEs: A*AABBBBBBCC

Do you think my GCSE grades are going to be a hindrance in any application to do accountancy and finance at say, LSE? Where should I be realistically looking given these circumstances?

I'm going to speak to them tomorow but it's always nice to have an idea before speaking to them.

I feel I'm going to be able to articulate the reasons for the change, it just depends on whether they would accept it as being reasonable.

The reason I've chosen accountancy and finance, is because there is a fair bit of economics in it, as well as having management and accountancy methods. I've always thought I'd end up trying to run my own venture so this course would give me the skills required to manage it.

Reading the course spec is filling me with hope, it seems well interesting - I just pray that a good uni will let me in.

I would believe most people applying to LSE and Warwick for A+F would have several A*'s and straight A's at A level, but you can always try! By the way, are you going to apply now or for the course commencing in year 2009?

[Ourkid]

I'll be applying to enter 2008... do you think this'll hinder or help?

It'll probably hinder as most positions have been filled by now - but I may get lucky who knows?

Ourkid

[Minerva]

Originally Posted by Ourkid

I'll be applying to enter 2008... do you think this'll hinder or help?

It'll probably hinder as most positions have been filled by now - but I may get lucky who knows?

Ourkid

Hang on - LSE won't have any places for anything at this late stage, so if you decide to apply there it would have to be later this year for 2009 entry. Also, your GCSEs could be a problem anyway. You'll need to check the website for details.

[Ourkid]

Well I rang them earlier and they don't have any spaces for this year, but said I was welcome to apply for next year, and that I have strong A levels.

This means taking a year out then, which is a scary prospect.
Alternatively I can phone other unis to see if they have any spaces, but I'm uncertain what to do.

It would mean I'd have wasted 3 years...

Ourkid

[prospectivEEconomist]

Are you only looking at IB target universities? There are plenty of other good universities that offer A+F.