I have an offer for the MSc in Management at the LSE. The tuition fees for two years will be at around £36,000, which is an awful lot of money. I could take up a loan to finance it, but I am curios whether the investment will pay itself off. I have friends who work in companies who encourage me to pursue this degree. They said that not only will I get a higher starting salary as compared to my current degree, but I can also expect faster career progression.
According to rankings published by the Financial Times, graduates with an MSc in Management can expect to earn close to 60,000 Euros, which certainly would be more than the usual graduate entry level job starting with £25k or £27k.
I would like to get some more opinions on this, preferably from people who have some work experience and ideally a similar qualification.
I have an offer for the MSc in Management at the LSE. The tuition fees for two years will be at around £36,000, which is an awful lot of money. I could take up a loan to finance it, but I am curios whether the investment will pay itself off. I have friends who work in companies who encourage me to pursue this degree. They said that not only will I get a higher starting salary as compared to my current degree, but I can also expect faster career progression.
According to rankings published by the Financial Times, graduates with an MSc in Management can expect to earn close to 60,000 Euros, which certainly would be more than the usual graduate entry level job starting with £25k or £27k.
I would like to get some more opinions on this, preferably from people who have some work experience and ideally a similar qualification.
I am currently studying towards one of the MSc degrees in Philosophy at the LSE. With it, I could apply to a lot of graduate entry positions. Also, I have had a number of interviews with consultancies. However, in the later stages of the interview process I felt at a disadvantage due to not having a relevant degree. Even though some of these companies say that the degree discipline does not matter, you certainly stand a much better chance if you have a relevant background, which I, currently, do not have.
I know people are polarised about whether such degrees are worth it. I think it rather depends what job you're hoping to get after it?! You shouldn't just do a post grad degree in belief that it will fetch you a high paying job afterwards by default. If you have no direction, it can be quite worthless I suppose.
It's not that I would shell out all that money, bum around for two years and then hope that an offer for my dream job would magically land in my lap. The programme is designed with a focus on employability. For instance, even before the start of the programme, there will be special events for the students about the job search etc. The first year is designed to give a broad foundation, and in the second year students can either specialize in certain areas or aim for a more generalist role. Too me, it all seems very well designed. Also, one internship is mandatory, and a second one is optional, which in total amounts to up to 14 weeks work experience.
You should be careful about using the FT stats to guide your decision as you're looking at the wrong numbers. The average Msc Management grad may start on 60k, *but you don't know how much they were earning before the Msc*. In many cases people taking an Msc have already been in work for a number of years so the higher salary reflects that and not of the degree.
You said you're getting interviews, that means it's not the paper qualification you have that are letting you down but rather your interviewing capabilities. Do you know why you fail at the interviews ? - which bits are you weak at.
I'm guessing from the way you described it that you struggled with the case study questions in the consultancy interviews, if that's the case then you just need to practice them. You won't actually gain that much from a masters.
If you take into account the opportunity cost and the cost of living, doing a masters could easily cost you 100k which from how you've described the situation doesn't seem worth it. I think you're better off identifying your weak points and working to remedy them (by reading up, practicing, etc).
Also if you do an Msc at this stage of your career you might find it harder to do an MBA a few years down the line, and a top-tier MBA would contribute a lot more to your careers.
You should be careful about using the FT stats to guide your decision as you're looking at the wrong numbers. The average Msc Management grad may start on 60k, *but you don't know how much they were earning before the Msc*. In many cases people taking an Msc have already been in work for a number of years so the higher salary reflects that and not of the degree.
No, this is not wrong the MSc Management programmes are usually for people with little to no work experience. A small number might have worked for one year or two, but the large majority has no work experience. In the case of the LSE MSc in Management applicants the condition is: "For graduates with little or no work experience but strong academic backgrounds in any field, with demonstrated quantitative ability and communication skills", so this can't be much of a factor in determining the starting salary.
Originally Posted by ttx
You said you're getting interviews, that means it's not the paper qualification you have that are letting you down but rather your interviewing capabilities. Do you know why you fail at the interviews ? - which bits are you weak at.
Do you know how ridiculous the competition for entry level positions in consulting is? Sometimes, there is a relation of 1,000 applications and more per opening. In the last rounds there is still a relation of four or three applicants per place, and the guys you meet there have a really impressive list of accomplishments. This is literally the cream of the crop. I would thus not frame it as a failure. It is simply the case that you lose out against guys with specialised degrees. Last year, in the post credit crunch recruiting phase, for example it was rather unheard of for people with degrees that were not related to this field to get an interview, whereas, as I have been told repeatedly, in previous years the situation was different.
As an employer, you always go for people that match a job profile best. Of course, you can't blame them for that.
Originally Posted by ttx
I'm guessing from the way you described it that you struggled with the case study questions in the consultancy interviews, if that's the case then you just need to practice them. You won't actually gain that much from a masters.
Consulting is just one of many options. The MSc in Management would open up a number of different areas to work in as well.
In any case, I would venture that a candidate who has studied a module like "Economics of Strategy" is in an infinitely better position to crack some of the case studies than someone who hasn't. There are two kinds of cases, the "think outside the box case" like "how many cars are there in Britain", then there are cases that require an understanding of how the (financial) markets work, how to organize a business etc. It's much harder to prepare for these.
Originally Posted by ttx
If you take into account the opportunity cost and the cost of living, doing a masters could easily cost you 100k which from how you've described the situation doesn't seem worth it. I think you're better off identifying your weak points and working to remedy them (by reading up, practicing, etc).
It's more like 50 to £55k. Still, compared with the typical salary for graduate entry level positions, which is around £25K to 27K, the pay-off seems reasonably high.
Originally Posted by ttx
Also if you do an Msc at this stage of your career you might find it harder to do an MBA a few years down the line, and a top-tier MBA would contribute a lot more to your careers.
There are also EMBA programmes. Furthermore, there are a number of one-year MBAs like the one at Judge Business School, which is a top-tier place.
Again, taking into account FT league tables, the MSc in Management at the LSE would lead to a starting salary that is about as high as the average MBA salary. The top MBA programmes are of course in a league of their own, but with an MBA from what the FT ranked as the top 50 to top 100 schools, you would not make much more. (This does not take into account different living standards. I would guess that 100k $ (or whatever the respective net-income is) buy you more in the US than £50k in the UK or 60k Euro in Europe, so there is a difference). This does not seem to be a bad start for one's career.
No, this is not wrong the MSc Management programmes are usually for people with little to no work experience.
Yes this is correct for LSE's programmes, but isn't true for all MSc programmes. For example HEC only requires the candidate be under 30.
Do you know how ridiculous the competition for entry level positions in consulting is? Sometimes, there is a relation of 1,000 applications and more per opening. In the last rounds there is still a relation of four or three applicants per place, and the guys you meet there have a really impressive list of accomplishments. This is literally the cream of the crop. I would thus not frame it as a failure. It is simply the case that you lose out against guys with specialised degrees.
What defines the cream of the crop isn't the masters degree though, it's their really impressive list of accomplishments.
In any case, I would venture that a candidate who has studied a module like "Economics of Strategy" is in an infinitely better position to crack some of the case studies than someone who hasn't. There are two kinds of cases, the "think outside the box case" like "how many cars are there in Britain", then there are cases that require an understanding of how the (financial) markets work, how to organize a business etc. It's much harder to prepare for these.
What you don't seem to realize is that applicants with masters/related specialisms get asked harder questions and are expected to know more. Consultancy houses take into account your experience because they're looking to hire raw talent as much as anything.
They didn't expect you to have an in-depth knowledge of business/finance, they expected you to have an in-depth knowledge for someone *with your level of experience*.
It's more like 50 to £55k. Still, compared with the typical salary for graduate entry level positions, which is around £25K to 27K, the pay-off seems reasonably high.
The top MBA programmes are of course in a league of their own, but with an MBA from what the FT ranked as the top 50 to top 100 schools, you would not make much more. .
Who do you think takes the jobs at the top-tier consultancies, private equity firms, etc. ? - it's not the 50-100 crowds. If that's where you're aiming then thats fine, but it won't get you into a top-tier consultancy.
Yes this is correct for LSE's programmes, but isn't true for all MSc programmes. For example HEC only requires the candidate be under 30.
I don't know about that, and it is slightly beside the point, because I was only concerned with my case and the payoffs of an LSE MSc in Management. According to the FT league table at...
... LSE graduates earn about 58k Euros, which is the highest avg. salary of all programmes, btw. For this degree no work experience is required. It was to precisely this fact that I was referring to. N.B. The degree in question has been renamed to "MSc in Management and Strategy", whereas the MSc in Mangement (from 2008 onward) is a two-year programme.
You can't count cost of living for obvious reasons because there is no way I could avoid these.
Originally Posted by ttx
Who do you think takes the jobs at the top-tier consultancies, private equity firms, etc. ? - it's not the 50-100 crowds. If that's where you're aiming then thats fine, but it won't get you into a top-tier consultancy.
You have missed the point. The point was that graduates of the LSE MSc in Management, with little to no work experience (!), have earning prospects that are comparable to the average salary of MBA graduates with oftentimes significant work experience. This should also counter your "opportunity costs argument". [N.B. I am aware of the fact that some US B-schools accept students without prior work experience into their MBA programmes, but this is rather the exception than rule.]
You can make rankings come up with whatever order you want by selecting only data which supports your beliefs.
AKA Confirmation Bias.
If you want to invest in your career, be clear of your goals. It's a competitive environment. Salary is not the be all and end all of investment, personal investment, social investment and career investment are other factors to consider.
Personally, I don't believe management is something that can be learned academically, becuase it's not a science, one approach whcih works for one individual doesn't necessary work for others, which is why you don't get temps filling in at management positions (whereas you do for other specialist jobs such as surgeons and engineers). Understanding people, learning how to develop them in a way which is congruent with their personalities whilst conforming to the company culture (and identifying areas of improvement) are key areas which require people and soft skills experience. No MSc will be able to teach you this.
Personally, I don't believe management is something that can be learned academically, becuase it's not a science, one approach whcih works for one individual doesn't necessary work for others, which is why you don't get temps filling in at management positions (whereas you do for other specialist jobs such as surgeons and engineers). Understanding people, learning how to develop them in a way which is congruent with their personalities whilst conforming to the company culture (and identifying areas of improvement) are key areas which require people and soft skills experience. No MSc will be able to teach you this.
It does not matter what YOU believe or don't believe. You do not seem to have any idea what the curriculum of a management/MBA degree entails, nor do you seem to have as much as an inkling of what management actually is. Maybe better do a quick search. Wikipedia might be a good starting point in your case. Also, you should know that you can learn everything. You can learn to play the piano, you can learn to dance, and of course you can also learn to lead people. This does not entail that you are going to be a second Rachmaninov, Nureyev, or Caesar. In all honesty, I can't even process some of the things you bring up because they show such a lack of insight. I would not even know where to start.
Oh, and for the record, Stanford offers an M.S. in Management Science.
EDIT: Of course you don't get "temps" fill in management roles in a way they replace people behind the counter at McDonald's. It's not that simple. However, it is not uncommon for a position to be temporarily filled by someone competent until a replacement has been found. Sometimes, consultants end up managing a certain area of a company due to the fact that they already know how the company works (in cases of long-term engagements). This is one of the most common ways for management consultants to land a job in industry, according to one of the consultants at a top consultancy. May I ask: do you make the stuff you post on here all up or do you have any kind of evidence to back it up?
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