Law at University FAQ

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This is totally random but I've been looking at options for September because I don't want to do Psychology any more. I've got a place to study Sociology/Criminology at a uni but they've got a Law and Criminology course in clearing but I don't know anything about law. Is it a really bad idea to apply for it, just have like a total change of direction? It's tempting because it's an LLB course and I'll be better equipped for the future than with a Sociology/Criminology degree! Or there is a 2 year LLB course, so I could do my first year of Soc/Crim and then if I like Law (i.e read up on it and find out if it interests me) apply for that then?!

It's tempting to apply for the degree but I don't think I'm prepared for it at all!

I do a criminology module in my final year and from my experience, although it's very interesting, it is quite difficult to understand everything. It's a completely different disipline and you have to answer things differently then if you were answering a law question (obvious but still.) I think a law degree is difficult enough as it is without it being complicated by a social module, never mind a combined honours course.

That's just personal opinion though. If you have some form of sociology before then it might be for you. May even may a welcome break when you come to some criminology work instead of law work!

Reply 121

bittersweet16

Original post by klam

Random question: Is anyone who is a current student at KCL know what textbooks are necessary for the first year? Do you advise reading them before the school year starts. Is there other ways of prepping for the program?

Thanks for any answers in advance, I think I come off sounding like such a keener :P

I'm at KCL now, no worries about sounding like a keener. I was exactly the same at your stage last year.

This year, we were told to buy the latest editions of:

1. McKendrick contract law
2. Keith and Ewing constitutional and administrative law
3. European law Craig and de Burca
4. For criminal, we were given a choice from a couple of textbooks. I chose Herring 'criminal law.'

I wouldn't read them before, you'll most likely get confused or read something that isn't relevant. Read something like 'letters to a law student' instead. That will be enough, they don't expect you to know anything about law when you start.

About buying textbooks, since you're interested in this: join a KCL freshers facebook group and in September there should be loads of student selling their second hand books. Also don't immediately buy the textbooks I mentioned above, sometimes they change from year to year.

Also don't rush out and buy what the tutors tell you to buy immediately. A lot of textbooks can be very hard to understand, you'll better off buying something you can read/digest rather that just something someone recommended.

Good luck, hope it all goes well for you :smile:

Reply 122

bittersweet16

Agreed, I read it because the lecturers say so but it is so dense :frown:

. I end up reading Chalmers, monti and davies instead.

Reply 123

Dust.

How would a Russell Group University view a Grade C in GCSE Mathematics? I am aware that they will view it as obviously inferior to others but against the backdrop of 10 A*-B grades for GCSE plus 4 A Levels that are all preferred (German/EngLit/History/Biology) and legal work experience since I was 15 years old?

Reply 124

roh

Original post by Dust.

Depends which RG uni! Check their websites in case they request a B but otherwise strong AS's should mitigate it.

For example don't apply to Manchester who ask for '5 GCSE A grades including English Language and at least a B in Mathematics'. Source.

Ditto Nottingham, who ask for 'outstanding grades of A or A*, particularly in the core academic subjects'. Source, under 'Establishing an Academic record'. This is obviously less clear cut but I think 'core academic subjects' is very likely to include maths and it seems a needless risk to apply with a C.

So just be careful when looking at unis and avoid those that make these specific sorts of requests regarding GCSEs.

If your profile is mainly As and Bs, rather than mainly A*s and As, it's probably going to be slightly below the average applicant for RG law schools but it's not going to destroy your application. Just make sure you compensate for it with strong predicted grades (maybe with a couple of A*s as well as As thrown in if possible), strong ASs and an excellent PS; in addition to this you may also have the chance to impress with a strong LNAT or Cambridge Law Test and, if you apply to Oxbridge, interview.

With the work experience make sure you relate it to how it made you interested in studying law. If you harp on about how shadowing a solicitor got you interested in the procedural side of things, helping businesses etc. they won't care. If you've done any research for them (looking up cases, summarising the case etc.) then that's probably the bit to write about it.

Just remembered that you mentioned the Bar in another post. The stats at page 45 here are useful for seeing what universities do well at the Bar. Saying that beyond the top 3 we're talking about a handful of students from each and this is probably prone to fluctuation year on year, as having just 2 or 3 more succeeding than normal catapults you up the list. The main thing I'd take from it is that it, sadly, still seems worth busting a b*****k for Oxbridge (Oxford having 3 times as many pupils as even third placed UCL) in the event you want to go to the Bar. Otherwise UCL may help and the rest seem very similar, so just go where you'd feel comfortable and, thus, are more likely to perform well academically.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 125

Miracle Day

Do you know any books I can read for beginners?

Reply 126

michael321

Original post by Miracle Day

Do you know any books I can read for beginners?

Why not start with "Letters to a Law Student"? It is a very useful book and suggests others you might want to read.

Overall my advice would be to not bother trying to get some potted summary of the English legal system because it won't be very useful in the long run. Your time will be much better spent reading up on, and developing your views on, current affairs and topical moral/legal issues.

Reply 127

Tsunami2011

Original post by michael321

Unrelated, but what do you hope to do with your Law degree? Seem like the barrister type!

Reply 128

michael321

Original post by Tsunami2011

Unrelated, but what do you hope to do with your Law degree? Seem like the barrister type!

How so? You mean I like to wander around in a grey wig and a robe in my spare time? (how did you know??)

Becoming a barrister does not appeal to me. It's a very risky, competitive and expensive course of action, and the rewards aren't that much greater than a solicitor's. Even if there would be a certain degree of awesomeness in the get-up and the thrill of the job, and even if I do enjoy watching Silk.

I think I would like to work for a Magic Circle firm for a bit and then consider my options (whether I'm likely to make partner, whether I want to stay in London). Whilst musing on such matters, I intend to win the lottery (despite not entering) and set up a charitable enterprise of some form or other.

Nothing can go wrong! :bhangra:

What about you?

Reply 129

Zedd

Out of interest- how many scots ll.b'ers do we have around these parts?

Reply 130

Tsunami2011

Original post by michael321

What about you?

Aha I'm actually surprised, I'm not sure why I assumed that. There is just something about how/what you write that made me assume that, and the fact that the Ox name makes that goal slightly more attainable. Ah the name Silk keeps cropping up, end of exams has come at the right time.

Similar path to you really, can't imagine working/living anywhere but London long-term, except university. The thought of being a barrister never really appealed to me, as much as it does to others, so hopefully a MC/SC firm. Might consider going into IB after a few years to rake up the $, if the chances of making partner seem low. I would like to work overseas, but that is a wild dream really. Good luck with the lotto!

(This is all hypothetical, before someone accuses me of being out of touch with reality or up my own arse)

Reply 131

eponewakka

Hi,

I'm currently doing a criminal justice & criminology degree - I have been thinking about switching to law. I have just finished my first year.

I've read that although I can become a barrister/solictor without the law degree, it may give me an advantage. So my question is - Is it worth switching to a law degree to educate myself or should I just do the one year conversion course?

Reply 132

punkski

hey,

is it possible to study a non-law degree undergraduate, say political science, and then do a masters degree in law to practise as a solicitor? or would i have a disadvantage against those who studied law at undergraduate level?

Reply 133

roh

Original post by punkski

You can do a Masters degree in certain areas of Law, eg. Public Law, with a politics degree but it won't qualify you to be a Lawyer.

As a non Law grad though you can take the intensive conversion course to Law, the Graduate Diploma in Law, and after a year that leaves you in the same position (needing to first an LPC or BPTC and then a Training Contract or Pupillage) as a Law grad at the end of their degree.

Most firms state that they have no preference for Law or non Law grads in their FAQs, the only disadvantage is if a firm doesn't fund the GDL for you it's a fair bit of extra money to cough up.

Reply 134

punkski

Original post by roh

more or less the same as a year of university fees including living costs though, isn't it? :confused:

unless it's really a substantial fee, it could definitely be well worth considering. is this a 'common' path? or am i doing something unorthodox and unnecessary?

Reply 135

roh

Original post by punkski

more or less the same as a year of university fees including living costs though, isn't it? :confused:

unless it's really a substantial fee, it could definitely be well worth considering. is this a 'common' path? or am i doing something unorthodox and unnecessary?

Roughly. A GDL at Birmingham College of Law, so probably about average, be cheaper at some other regional providers and more in London, is 7,370 this year.

However, that's up front fees with no student loan so you have to find 7k somewhere, likely savings or your parents if they have it.

Reply 136

punkski

Original post by roh

i see. so just for clarification, what happens is essentially that after my undergraduate degree (again in, say, political science), i can apply to study a masters degree in law. will respected institutions really consider me, provided i performed decently at undergraduate level? or will someone who studied LLB, not necessarily of the same calibre as a student, always have the upper hand against me?

also, will this GDL course, if financed by my guardian, bring me to the exact same level as someone who undertook the LLB and then a masters degree? in other words, will i really be at the same level, or is that just theoretical in that employers prefer someone who studied law throughout?

Reply 137

roh

Original post by punkski

Oxbridge seems to be law only for their masters. Outside of those 2 it will depend on whether the masters is related to your undergrad. Postgrad is a lot more specialised, so a politics grad may be a good candidate for something on Constiutional Law but not Commercial, opposite for a Business grad. A masters really isn't necessary to practice Law and is a hefty investment, again up front fees and no student loan, so only do it you're intereste in it not as a career tool seems to be the general advice.

In terms of academic Law? No. In terms of the amount of Legal knowledge necessary to succeed in practice it seems yes. Plenty of legal practice areas don't require massive amounts of legal knowledge and firms realise this so will happily recruit non law grads with just a GDL.

Reply 138

imyza

Is it a bit too late for me to suddenly decide I think that law might be a better degree for me? I'm still not 100% as haven't researched into it loads yet but I was set on psychology and I've suddenly realised maybe that isn't for me. Law seems more suitable to me but I don't know if it's too late as I don't have law related work experience, extra curriculars etc. I'm applying for 2013 entry btw so any advice/tips are appreciated!

Reply 139

sfriday

Hey if anyone is interested i Have a load of textbooks i bought new last year for my first year, for all modules, message me if you want any! various C&A, contract, criminal and legal foundations books, latest editions etc. :smile:

going cheap, i've got no need for them anymore!