Clinical Contact at Cambridge and Oxford

Renal

But not for the troops. :frown:

I think Selly Oak has been badly misrepresented in the media. It is a fine hospital that is a leading trauma centre. It is just an instance of the media blowing anything up in to a major crisis scandal, vis-a-vis MRSA, immigration, anti-social behaviour etc etc.

Reply 84

Renal

17

007005

I think Selly Oak has been badly misrepresented in the media. It is a fine hospital that is a leading trauma centre. It is just an instance of the media blowing anything up in to a major crisis scandal, vis-a-vis MRSA, immigration, anti-social behaviour etc etc.

It's still a **** hole of a hospital, the fact that it has a small MDHU makes little difference.

You want fine hospitals - they're everywhere.
You want leading trauma centres - every city and county will claim to have one, except London; that has five or six.

Reply 85

007005

I'm talking about Cambridge the City and Birmingham the City, not the universities. The traffic in Cambridge is horrendous. It's difficult to get to unless you live to the south and can go on the M11. The train services to Ely are of questionable standard - usually over packed and often have problems. There are no international links - you have to go to Stanstead which is a horrible place. Try looking in an estate agents and see what you can buy for £200,000, then compare this to Norwich and Peterborough and you will see a very definite difference. More recently, I understand, there have been significant crime issues for various reason. Basically, unless you're loaded, Cambridge isn't the most wonderful place to live and work.

Yes, when i look for a place to go to uni my first question is "how are the transport links to Ely"

As fo house prices int he town - yes they are expensive. THey are expensive because its a safe, beautiful town in short commuting distance from london.

You want cheap, go live in Slough. The dodgy end.

Reply 86

Jamie

Yes, when i look for a place to go to uni my first question is "how are the transport links to Ely"

As fo house prices int he town - yes they are expensive. THey are expensive because its a safe, beautiful town in short commuting distance from london.

I'm not saying it should be the first question, I'm saying that for some people it's an issue -- i.e. people who work in Cambridge but can't afford to live there and live in north Cambridgeshire/ Norfolk.

House prices are expensive I expect because of a lack of housing due to a university domination in the city centre, around it and out to the west - meaning there is less land to build on/ existing housing is used by students.

Reply 87

Renal

It's still a **** hole of a hospital, the fact that it has a small MDHU makes little difference.

You want fine hospitals - they're everywhere.
You want leading trauma centres - every city and county will claim to have one, except London; that has five or six.

Which is the sort of arrogance entertained by London media.

Reply 88

I think I've demonstrated in a round about way how the Tait-Establishment arguments raged on for some decades.

Reply 89

Renal

17

007005

I think I've demonstrated in a round about way how the Tait-Establishment arguments raged on for some decades.

Nobody gives a **** bar you. Go bore someone else.

Reply 90

Helenia

20

007005

I know enough about Cambridge to know that under its shiny veneer it's just like any other university - that is, it's great if you are a student or you have a university position; everybody else (research staff without university positions) is treated as disposable **** who is in the way of their great plans.

And that affects the clinical medical course how, exactly?

That's a question of personal preference. I know Cambridge well as a place and I wouldn't want to study there for various reasons. Birmingham is in the real world, this is true, but most people have to face that eventually. Cambridge has all sorts of problems that they need to deal with - very poor transport links, lack of housing, hyper-inflated housing prices, lack of amenities. Fine. Birmingham has its own greater challenges, but unlike Cambridge we have to sort them out ourselves, because we can't expect Bill Gates to come along and give us the cash (ok to build a university department, not that relevant) or Governement ministers to think fondly of their time here and lend us help.

Are you arguing about Cambridge as a city, or Cambridge University? Bill Gates isn't going to help with housing in Cambridge, or the transport system (which, incidentally, as Jamie has already said, is pretty damn good for East Anglia). Yes, the university gets money from people like him, but that's for the university, which is one of the reasons why it's one of the best in the world. It has little to do with the "real life" of the city (and having lived outside the bubble for two years now, I do have some idea of life beyond Homerton)

007005

House prices are expensive I expect because of a lack of housing due to a university domination in the city centre, around it and out to the west - meaning there is less land to build on/ existing housing is used by students.

This just shows how little you know about the place. How much private housing is taken up by Cambridge University students, do you think?

House prices are expensive for the reasons Jamie gave, not some evil plot on behalf of the university. There are massive developments in the north of the city and will be another one to the south within the next few years. It won't bring prices down though, as far as I can see.

This is all massively off-topic now. If you have a problem with Cambridge's clinical course, rather than some bizarre dislike of the city and the university which isn't very well founded, then make a point. Otherwise, leave it.

Reply 91

AlexanderGPM

I love Cambridge but people are entitled to their opinions, if people don't like it then who cares? Just because it's Cambridge doesn't mean everyone worships it you know :rolleyes:

Reply 92

007005

I'm not saying it should be the first question, I'm saying that for some people it's an issue -- i.e. people who work in Cambridge but can't afford to live there and live in north Cambridgeshire/ Norfolk.

House prices are expensive I expect because of a lack of housing due to a university domination in the city centre, around it and out to the west - meaning there is less land to build on/ existing housing is used by students.

University domination?
What are you a town planner?
the university IS the town. THis isn't arrogance, but demographics. the town grew around the uni. Hell, I would argue those living in cambridge are living in the middle of a giant uni campus - not the other way around.

as for space - its in the middle of the countryside. THeres lots of land around it.

Reply 93

Jamie

the university IS the town. THis isn't arrogance, but demographics. the town grew around the uni. Hell, I would argue those living in cambridge are living in the middle of a giant uni campus - not the other way around.

You get the idea why many locals aren't very fond of you? You come to their city, make a lot of noise for three years or whatever and go about thinking you own the place and then leave. It's not like that with most students of course, but all the same I hear Town-Gown tensions are at an all time high - including the odd murder.

The reason there isn't very much else in Cambridge - even though there are some biotech start ups and things, engineering companies, Addenbrookes and some non-university institutes, none of which are totally reliant on the university - is that there is no space in the city centre (where it is conventional to put your business district) for anything much.

I know few students rent privately - but I mean that they use up space. They can't just build on green belt land, that takes years of planning permission etc etc.

Reply 94

Helenia

And that affects the clinical medical course how, exactly?

It doesn't. I was just trying to explain why not every one is enthralled by this university and that it's reputation is founded, just like any other university's, upon the cynical exploitation and manipulation of its junior staff.

The truth is Cambridge university, is just a university. Better funded than most and with some advantages, but in the big scheme of things it is just a university which doesn't compare better than a dozen or so American universities. Nor is it the case that it has all the best of British. Not at all. Many leading academics never have anything to do with Oxbridge - one example I know well is James Fraser Stoddart who studied at Edinburgh and worked in Sheffield and Birmingham before going to the States. He is arguably the greatest living chemist.

It's good to be proud of your institution, but you should know it's faults too. Certainly, in Birmingham there are many many problems, but I hope I can say that by recognising them we are working towards improving our university and city.

Reply 95

Beska

OP

21

Jesus christ. We get it, you hate Oxbridge. Nobody cares.

Reply 96

007005

You get the idea why many locals aren't very fond of you? You come to their city, make a lot of noise for three years or whatever and go about thinking you own the place and then leave. It's not like that with most students of course, but all the same I hear Town-Gown tensions are at an all time high - including the odd murder.

The reason there isn't very much else in Cambridge - even though there are some biotech start ups and things, engineering companies, Addenbrookes and some non-university institutes, none of which are totally reliant on the university - is that there is no space in the city centre (where it is conventional to put your business district) for anything much.

I know few students rent privately - but I mean that they use up space. They can't just build on green belt land, that takes years of planning permission etc etc.

Again, more sillyness.
How do you think a town centre comes to be? It is not the place that the first house was uilt, its a dynamic situation that often moves over the years according to dominance of market forces. In london for instnace the 'centre' has moved many times over the years.
In cambridge the 'town centre' is arguably the market - an area surrounded by commercial businesses. However, there are also large leisure centre type developments ont he outskirts of town - in keeping with many cities.
The university buildings in the 'town centre' largely go back 400 years or more from a time when the population of cambridge was a few thousand.
To say not only that the university has stifled the development of cambridge, but that there is local resentment of the fact is crazy. Many locals are employed in some way because of the university - be it directly or serving the tourism that only really comes from the fact the university is there.
Without the university you would have a small town in the middle of the fens - with no local resources or distinguishing features. Everything about cambridge from the 14th century onwards (before which it had a few thousand occupants) is linked to the uni. THe only trade there - farming and wool died out many years ago.

And as for your comment about town-gown tensions and murders!
My god, what are you smoking!?
THere are ALWAYS student-non-student tensions in any place. Cambridge has fallen into somewhat of a self enforced apartheid. Students go out into town sunday to thursday, friday and saturday nights the locals go out.
When does most of the violence and trouble happen? friday and saturday - local vs local, not some sort of hunting for students to attack. THe same applies with the odd murder that has occured over the last few years (one that sticks out was on a new years) - all local on local.
There was a big thing a few years back about some guy randomly attacking people with a knife, but i'm not sure what happened there (helenia might know, it happened in my final year about 3 times then stopped) but thats not different from anywhere else in the UK.

Reply 97

Jamie

Again, more sillyness.
How do you think a town centre comes to be?

I think it would be reasonable that in most cities the town centre is defined by an inner ring road built, most likely, in the 1960s. I would say that Cambridge adheres to this. It is difficult to have any worthwhile developments on the other side of a ring road, because they become isolated, less visited and it just doesn't work. Consequently, in Birmingham there has been a lot of work done to remove the "concrete collar" so as to allow the city centre to expand. However, this is expensive and may be difficult (can you channel the traffic in some other way?). Thus, Cambridge has little room for developing the city centre (and yes there are a few developments, but not enough), as so much of the land belongs to the university and colleges. And what is the result? Believe it or not, Cambridge has such poor shopping that some people go to Norwich to shop.

I do not agree that Cambridge would not have developed were it not for the university. Historical "what ifs" are a bit pointless, but I do not see why Cambridge could not have developed to the scale of Ely. Ok, not the most exciting place Ely, but it's ok. Good for train spotters.

I don't hate Cambridge or its universities (Anglia Ruskin has a campus too, of course). I just resent the way in which the media presents it as some sort of paragon of academia. When you look at some of what places like the UEA, Warwick, Sussex, Bath and York have built up over forty years it does not always compare badly with what Cambridge has done in 800 years. Except that their foundations lie in widening opportunities and social equity, where as Cambridge's foundations were in endowments that were built up by expropriating taxes from commoners and using slave labour. That was a long time ago, so we can forgive it. But something to remember when you compare the quads of Cambridge to the concrete of the UEA.

Reply 98

"where as Cambridge's foundations were in endowments that were built up by expropriating taxes from commoners and using slave labour."

More Sillyness. Slave labour?!?
My college for instance - Corpus was actually built and funded by the towns people. Most of the oldest parts of the university - until recent centuries were entirely theologically driven - and paid for by donations from rich and poor alike.

I've heard many reasons for people not liking cambridge int he past, but this has got to be th most surreal bunch of statements i've ever come across.

Reply 99