Getting into US grad school with a degree from UK

xcanzx

What is the general standard for getting into top US grad schools (such as Stanford, Berkeley and the Ivies)?

I've been looking at the admission sites lately and I have no idea what my 2.1 is in terms of GPA or how reputable an UK undergraduate degree is to US universities.

Anyone who thinks the reputation of your undergraduate college doesn't matter is fooling themselves. Just look at where a majority of the students come from. You do have the advantage of studying in Britain, so American admission officers won't really know the reputation of your college. Then again, if you go to LSE, that certainly won't be an issue.

Now regarding grades, they matter very little. American grad programs look at numerous factors, and your grade is one of many (and far from the most important). As long as you get an above average grade from a good college (the standards rise for worse institutions), and a 2:1 certainly qualifies, you won't be hurt by it. I doubt a First would really increase your chance to be honest.

Now to the important things, American grad programs tend to look at 4 things (assuming your grades are ok): GRE scores, recommendations, your statement of purpose, and your work experience. Google the GRE if you don't know what it is. You need to get around a 1400 (out of 1600) and roughly a 5 (out of 6) on writing (or roughly the 90th percentile) to have a reasonable chance of getting in a top American program (1300 is sufficient for slightly lower colleges). As with grades, getting a grade far above what is required isn't really going to help you much. The only purpose of this score is to see that you can take the workload and are reasonably intelligent. Next you'll need three (sometimes two) recommendations from professors at your undergrad college who know you well. It certainly wouldn't hurt if one or more of them were prominent in the subject you're applying for. Next, and this is arguably the most important part, you have to write an excellent statement of purpose. Each college has somewhat different questions for it. Fourthly, American colleges are big on work experience. Unless you are the perfect candidate, have loads of internships, and traveled the world, your chances of getting into a top program without at least a few years of relevant work experience are virtually null. The average grad student is in his/her late 20s, and you will be at a severe disadvantage without the work experience. Lastly, some of the top schools expect you to already have published or been involved in serious research before you apply. It's possible to get in without this, but you'd have to make up for it by being superior in the other areas I mentioned.

And one word of advice, no college is good in everything. And a lot of colleges that are good for undergrads are mediocre for graduate students. Look at the ranking of the school in the subject you want to study before applying. And there really is no reason to apply for just the top programs. There are dozens of American colleges that will provide you with a world-class education in every field, especially since a lot of American colleges are heavily geared towards graduate programs, and have both the funding and quality of professors that will provide you with a top-notch education.

Reply 3

WhoNeedsIvyLeague

While I agree with most of what is said above, whoever reads it must also realize that it's impossible to give a general overview of what it takes to get into a top US grad program. For instance, in my field the GRE isn't very important at all and work experience in the field isn't common. GPA, recs, and research experience are the most important factors. My GRE was in the 1300 range and I got into plenty of top universities...and I know people with much lower scores who also had similar success. In general grad school admissions are much less numerically based than undergrad. It's impossible to say you need X GRE, X years work experience, etc. and you'll get in because there are SO many variables.

Reply 4

Epik High

My friend's older brother did undergrad compsci at swansea in the UK, but got a 1st. Now he is doing his masters at MIT.

The above is just a genuine example. However Bismarck's advice is the most reliable.

In the UK's case, the university reputation is of no concern (providing it is a traditional university). It is the classification of the degree.

Reply 5

OP

Bismarck

Fourthly, American colleges are big on work experience. Unless you are the perfect candidate, have loads of internships, and traveled the world, your chances of getting into a top program without at least a few years of relevant work experience are virtually null. The average grad student is in his/her late 20s, and you will be at a severe disadvantage without the work experience. Lastly, some of the top schools expect you to already have published or been involved in serious research before you apply. It's possible to get in without this, but you'd have to make up for it by being superior in the other areas I mentioned.

Does that change if I'm only applying for masters, not phd?

Reply 6

Work experience doesn't help all postgraduate courses in US.(They matter most for courses in GSB.) And university's brand does matter a lot because of LORs. (Generally, a top university's researcher holds more weight in writing LOR) And grades does matter to some extent. It's used to distinguish candidates, with similar backgrounds.

Reply 7

xcanzx

Does that change if I'm only applying for masters, not phd?

In what field?

WhoNeedsIvyLeague

While I agree with most of what is said above, whoever reads it must also realize that it's impossible to give a general overview of what it takes to get into a top US grad program. For instance, in my field the GRE isn't very important at all and work experience in the field isn't common. GPA, recs, and research experience are the most important factors. My GRE was in the 1300 range and I got into plenty of top universities...and I know people with much lower scores who also had similar success. In general grad school admissions are much less numerically based than undergrad. It's impossible to say you need X GRE, X years work experience, etc. and you'll get in because there are SO many variables.

Yes, mine was general advice. There is some variation between different subjects, and the numbers I provided are general guidelines: doing slightly worse in one can be made up by being above average in another. If you're significantly below the curve in one of the areas, however, your adds of getting in become pretty grim.

Reply 8

OP

Sorry should have been more specific. I'm looking to apply for masters in Operations Research/Management Science. I graduated from LSE with a 2.1 in Management Science.

Reply 9

xcanzx

Sorry should have been more specific. I'm looking to apply for masters in Operations Research/Management Science. I graduated from LSE with a 2.1 in Management Science.

I knew someone who was studying for a masters in that at LSE. :smile:

Masters programs tend to have far more lax requirements, since you're highly unlikely to get funding and the acceptance rate tends to be much higher. Grades, GRE/GMAT (not sure which one you need for operational research; better check the websites of the programs you want to apply to), and recommendations matter more; specific accomplishments probably matter less. Work experience might still be encouraged; this likely varies from college to college.

By the way, the schools that are good in math-related subjects are not the ones that are good for other subjects. For example, Cal Tech is probably really good in your field, and I would imagine that MIT is either at the top or nearly so. Cornell, Northwestern, and Berkeley should have some of the top programs as well. According to the National Academy of sciences, the top graduate programs in mathematical sciences are in: Berkeley, Harvard, Princeton, Chicago and Cal Tech. You should go to the website of each school to see if they offer a masters in your program.

Here's the MIT site:

http://web.mit.edu/orc/www/academics/admission/index.html

Reply 10

Hm, isn't Operations Research done mostly by maths undergraduates?

Reply 11

OP

Thanks Bismarck. I've ideas as to where I would like to apply. To be honest, the reason I'm set to get into a top school or not go at all is because of how expensive a masters is. I feel like it'll only be worth it if it's at a top school. MIT is the leader in OR; Cornell and Berkeley have good programs. Most top engineering schools offer masters in OR.

TSRreader

Hm, isn't Operations Research done mostly by maths undergraduates?

I'm not sure if OR attracts maths undergraduates but OR is hardly maths, you do some statistics, but it's mostly modeling and simulation. It's a really broad discipline and applies in many industries.

Reply 12

xcanzx

Thanks Bismarck. I've ideas as to where I would like to apply. To be honest, the reason I'm set to get into a top school or not go at all is because of how expensive a masters is. I feel like it'll only be worth it if it's at a top school. MIT is the leader in OR; Cornell and Berkeley have good programs. Most top engineering schools offer masters in OR.

A masters here is ridiculously expensive, but I think you're underestimating the amount of excellent programs with a world-class reputation. Applying to a few schools that are outside of the elite is to simply provide yourself with more options. Considering how much it would cost you, spending a few hundred extra dollars on applications is probably not that much of a big deal.

Do you by any chance know what the top academic journals in OR are? Because you could look to see which colleges the contributors to those journals teach at. If several professors from one college are able to get published in a top journal, chances are their college has a very good and reputable program.

Reply 13

I think you should focus hard on GRE's quantitative part. If you score a top QGRE 740-800, it's easily can distinguish you from the rest. You should expect tough competition, especially in the US postgraduate, as you are after top schools.

Reply 14

OP

I get what you're saying Bismarck, but my career path does not really involve academia or being an operations researcher. I would like a career in risk management, therefore a school that has links with banks/industry is a lot more appealing to me than one that only has great academic reputation in the field. But I'll take a look at the other programs and see where their graduates end up.

And yeah, I'm preparing for the GRE right now. I looked at the admission stats at the top engineering schools, the average for the quant part is around 780. Should be achievable with a lot of practice and some luck of course. :smile:

Reply 15

http://finance.yahoo.com/college-education/article/105499/Ivy-Leaguers%27-Big-Edge-Starting-Pay

I thought people here might find the article interesting.

Reply 16

OP

wow interesting haha money does motivate.

Reply 17

caustic87

3

Just referring back to a previous post by Bismark, how important is work experience for a purely academic degree? I'm planning to study English and American literature (or equivilent - it's sometimes named differently), hoping to persue an academic career. I hope to attend a couple of conferences in my final year, but is there any relevent work experience that would be expected? I'm used to the UK system where it's purely the academic standard of my undergrad work and potential in academic research that's measured. My academic work should be of a high standard as I'm predicted a 1st from Oxford

Reply 18

caustic87

Just referring back to a previous post by Bismark, how important is work experience for a purely academic degree? I'm planning to study English and American literature (or equivilent - it's sometimes named differently), hoping to persue an academic career. I hope to attend a couple of conferences in my final year, but is there any relevent work experience that would be expected? I'm used to the UK system where it's purely the academic standard of my undergrad work and potential in academic research that's measured. My academic work should be of a high standard as I'm predicted a 1st from Oxford

You don't need work experience. US universities prefer ppl to have work experience on subjects which have sizeable disparity between applied and theory. Thus most postgraduate course, which insist to have work experience, are quite vocational.

Reply 19