[Paulwhy]

I have updated the applications per place post:

Do uni make more offers than they have places?
Short Answer yes.

For 2 cases I have additionally got the offers data as well as the number of applicants and places.
i) For Cambridge in 07/08 there were 1159 applications, 193 Offers and 177 admissions. So the applicant per offer ratio is very close to the applicant per place ratio of 6:1. http://www.cam.ac.uk/admissions/unde...html#economics

ii) For Edinburgh in 07/08 there were 703 applications, 258 offers and 64 admissions. So the applicant per offer ratio is 3 which is only a quarter of the applicant per place ratio of 11:1
http://www.sra.ed.ac.uk/admissions/S...gramme2007.htm

What about other unis?
I can't see many people turning down LSE or Oxford. So like Cambridge I suspect they make only a few more offers than they have places.

I don't have hard offers data for other unis. But one measure of high many excess offers they make is how often they end up with more students than they intended. I know 3 cases of this:
i)Warwick 07 40% excess
ii)UCL 07 40% excess
iii) Notts 08 40% excess

So that suggests that even just outside the top 3 they are making at least 40% more offers than places. And when we consider offers not accepted and candidates who do accept but don't make the grades, we might guess at a round rule of 50% more offers than places even for unis just outside the top 5. (Though unis don't want too many students and we might expect unis who end up with excess one year to react by making less offers the subsequent year)
And further down there could be a lot lot more offers than places.

[Paulwhy]

Added in a comment on the Bsc v Ba debate:

Is Bsc or Ba better?
In simple terms a Bsc is more technical and hence better than a Ba.
(Except for Cambridge and Oxford which are Ba in name but Bsc in content and reputation)
For the full picture see the wiki:
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/Economics_Degree

[Paulwhy]

Another update:

So what are the stylised facts?
2 main stylised facts.
1)Applicants initially underestimate difficulty of getting into top unis. (e.g. AAB.1 and up).
You probably know this by now but to have a reasonable chance of getting into the AAB.1 and above unis you need more than just 3 A2 and 3 AS levels:


2)Applicants after some research overshoot and over-estimate difficulty of getting into near top unis. (e.g. AAB.2 and below)
i) AAB.2: 2 examples of AAB.2 unis that are easier to gets than you might expect are York and Southampton (both of which many people would have as Top 10 or near Top 10). In 2008 York made an offer to a student doing Maths, ICT and GS. Whilst Southampton recorgnises a range of qualifications and gives flexible offers:
http://www.southampton.ac.uk/socsci/.../entryreq.html


ABB.2:
A lot of the ABB.2 unis let in students with a lot less than ABB:

So even if you have more sub-a grades than a grades at AS-level then including some AAB.2 unis in your 5 would not be unreasonable.

[Am/pm]

This is so fascinatinating and thanks for all your statistics and research.
As a FAQ can I ask how these top Uni's view post A-level/IB applicants? I mean the post results candidate is a known quantity and surely can be formulated into offers/decisions quotas much earlier.
As an example of what happened to me pre A-level results-Bath gave me an AAB offer for L01 (of which A had to be definitely economics) I delayed my decision and they subsequently tightened the offer to AA being maths as well.

[Paulwhy]

Further update to post 2

Once I have a provisional list of 5 how can I tell how aggressive I am being?
Well, once you have your AS-levels you should have a pretty good idea of your final A-level grades:
i)You might expect your A-level grades to be similar to your AS grades except when you drop multiple AS subjects in which case you might expect improvements.
i) You have your teachers’ predictions,
iii) You know that half your A-level marks come from AS exams you have already taken.
From your expected A-level grades you can calculate your expected tariff.

You can then compare your expected tariff with the actual median tariff of the 5 unis you are targeting. The more unis where you are below the median the more aggressive you are being. And if you are significantly below the median for all 5 that is a very aggressive application.

You should look at the spreadsheet or the accumulative frequency graphs to find out the full tariff distribution. But here are the median (where available) from the unistat 05/06 data:

Spoiler:

Show

AAA (360 Points) (Need 3 As even if take >3 A-levels)
Cambridge M** E**p 560-599
Oxford # M**p 520-559
LSE M** 480-519
UCL M**A 480-519

AAA (360 Points) (non-AAA offers (Durham AABin 2008, Notts AABB))
Durham M* 440-479
Nottingham (or AABB) M**pE**p 440-479

AAB (340 Points) (Green, Blue)
Warwick (+b in fourth AS) M** 480-519
Bristol M** 440-479
Bath M**E**p 440-479
St Andrews 440-479
Leeds (Ba) 400-439

AAB (340 Points) (ABB offers (Exeter, SOAS, Southampton ABBb), black red)
York M**p 400-439
Southampton (or ABBb) M*c 400-439
Exeter M**p 400-439
Manchester (BSc) M** E**p 400-439
SOAS 360-399

ABB (320 Points) (Up to 21% of students have less than 320 points: Glasgow 15%, Birmingham 3%, Manchester (Ba) 6%, Cardiff 10%, Lancaster 21%,, Manchester 6%, Cardiff 10%, Lancastere 21%, Newcastle 7%)
Glasgow 400-439
Birmingham 400-439
Manchester (Ba) 400-439
Cardiff M** 360-399
Lancaster 400-439
Newcastle 400-439

ABB (320 Points) (More than 21% of students have less than 320 points: Essex 42%,UEA 52%, Leicester 29%, Reading 24%) or accpet lower offers (RH BBB with maths, Sussex (BBB), Loughbourgh (only 200 points from A-levels) Clearing 2007(RH, Essex,UEA,Leicester,Reading) ,Clearing 2008(Essex,UEA,Leicester,Reading )
Loughborough 360-399
Sussex 360-399
Royal Holloway 360-399
Essex 320-359
East Anglia 320-359
Leicester 320-359
Reading 360-399

BBB (300 Points) (< 20% of students sub 280 points)
Edinburgh M*p 440-479
Sheffield 360-399
Liverpool 360-399
Queen Mary M* M**p 320-359
Queen's Belfast 320-359

BBB (300 Points) (Atleast 20% of students below 280 points) (City (20%),Surrey (32%), Kent (36%), Swansea (unreported)
City 320-359
Surrey 320-359
Kent 280-319
Swansea

BBC (280 Points)
Strathclyde
Brunel 280-319
Aberystwyth
0
BCC (260 Points)
Heriot-Watt
Hull
Stirling
Keele #+Finance
Coventry 200-239
Kingston 160-199
0
CCC (240 Points) (<20% of studnets sub 240 points) Dundee (5%), Aberdeeen (15%), Ulster (15%)
Dundee 280-319
Aberdeen 320-359
Ulster 360-399

CCC (240 Points) (Atleast 20% of students some 240 points) Manchester Met (41%), Salford (Unreported), Portsmouth (25%), Nottingham Trent (40%), Hertfordshire (57%), Bradford (Unreported)
Manchester Met 240-279
Salford
Portsmouth 240-279
Nottingham Trent 240-279
Hertfordshire
Bradford 200-239

CCD (220 Points)
Central Lancashire
UWE Bristol 240-279

CDD (200 Points)
London Met 160-199
Liverpool JMU

DDD (180 Points)
Greenwich 120-159

[Paulwhy]

(Original post by Am/pm)
This is so fascinatinating and thanks for all your statistics and research.
As a FAQ can I ask how these top Uni's view post A-level/IB applicants? I mean the post results candidate is a known quantity and surely can be formulated into offers/decisions quotas much earlier.
As an example of what happened to me pre A-level results-Bath gave me an AAB offer for L01 (of which A had to be definitely economics) I delayed my decision and they subsequently tightened the offer to AA being maths as well.

At the risk of appearing a nerd I think I know answer to this one. Bath have updated the subject specific requirements of their AAB offer. For example Economics used to be "helpful" and now it is "strongly preferred". Similarly there is now a requirement for maths at grade A for all students:
http://www.bath.ac.uk/econ-dev/ug/admis-pol.htm
A-levels

BSc Economics

Typical offer of AAB from 3 GCE A-levels (excluding General Studies and/or Critical Thinking). Mathematics required at grade A. Economics is a strongly preferred subject, or Business Studies where it is not possible to sit A-Level Economics.
(their bold not mine!).

So in summary the offer has changed not because you are applying post A-level but because the offer applied to all applicants (both pre and post A-level) has changed. Similarly I don't think there is a specific policy of requiring higher standards from post A-level applicants (although of course unis will consider all relevant info when making offers and so if you have only just got the required grades that is not helpful).

[Paulwhy]

(Original post by sv90)
Assuming a competent personal statement, how far do you have to be above the average tariff points for a uni to be 'reasonably sure' of getting in? (or in reverse also, how far below the average do you have to be reasonably sure you won't get in?)

Firstly you should check out the Econ PS FAQ as most econ PSs I see are deeply incompotent (atleast initially!)
Secondly it is had to say what is a big gap. But:
i) I am not thinking of just an A-level grade (20 points) but more like an extra AS/A qualification (60/120 points).
ii) It is fine to apply to a couple number of places where there is a big gap but maybe 3/4 would be to many. e.g. half of Warwick econ students have 4 A-levels but half don't. So they do make offers to applicants only doing 3 A-levels just at a lower rate than to students doing 4.

(Original post by sv90)
Or is there simply no easy answer and it just depends on a whole variety of factors?

Yes, it does depend on a lot of factors. But I think i) your A/AS-level grades and subjects and ii) your PS between them have a lot of explanatory power. However I don't know the exact weights on different aspects.

(Original post by sv90)
I ask because it'll make my selections easier if for example I know I should definitely be able to get into a uni with X tariff points (don't want to 'waste' one of my choices on an insurance which is too low for example).

Check out the my opening posts in this thread. They should give you some guidance.

[Paulwhy]

Added the last line about GS as an essay subject.

And what makes a weaker application in terms of academics?
Factors include:
Not having the properties listed above.
(Special mention for Maths (mandatory at most strong unis) and Economics prefered at most unis and held by 80-90% of students at Top 5 unis))
In addition:
i) Overlapping subjects (e.g. Business and Economcis)
ii) Less preferred (i.e. blacklisted) subjects (e.g. ICT. see cambridge and LSE lists:
http://www.cam.ac.uk/admissions/unde...ex.html#course
http://www.lse.ac.uk/resources/under...ed-subheading5)

Note if you don't have an essay based subject as one of your main A-levels, doing GS as an extra subjects is one way of showing that you can write an essay.

[Mglafas]

These are the grades on my IB Diploma:

HL Math: 6
HL Economics: 7
HL English: 5

SL Physics: 7
SL Chemistry: 7
SL Mandarin: 6

TOK: A
EE (in econ): A

Total points: 41


So, what universities can i realisticly apply to? Are universities such as UCL, LSE and Warwick a complete waste of the 5 spaces on my application?

Since I am not from the UK I don't know how to interpret A-level results and requirements, so it would be great if you guys could suggest a few good universities that fit my results well. Many universities also specifically look at HL subjects only and some places require 6,6,6. How will i fare there when i have 7,6,5?

Thanks!

[Paulwhy]

TAELT in general and this post in particular will help:
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...7#post14272777

(Original post by Mglafas)
These are the grades on my IB Diploma:



HL Math: 6

HL Economics: 7

HL English: 5



SL Physics: 7

SL Chemistry: 7

SL Mandarin: 6



TOK: A

EE (in econ): A



Total points: 41





So, what universities can i realisticly apply to? Are universities such as UCL, LSE and Warwick a complete waste of the 5 spaces on my application?



Since I am not from the UK I don't know how to interpret A-level results and requirements, so it would be great if you guys could suggest a few good universities that fit my results well. Many universities also specifically look at HL subjects only and some places require 6,6,6. How will i fare there when i have 7,6,5?



Thanks!

You should email a number of places.
This is the 1st piece of advise in my econ uni guide:
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=658957

But yes LSE looks out of reach (e.g. they want 7,6,6)

Some of the lower 6,6,6 unis will be more flexible. Check out the A-level version of TAELT for which unis they might be:
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=619184

Also check out the IB applications page of the spreadhseet attached to the opening post in that thread.

[TheGroove]

41 points is roughly equivalent to five As at A-Level so you have a chance of getting in wherever you apply pretty much.

[Paulwhy]

(Original post by TheGroove)
41 points is roughly equivalent to five As at A-Level so you have a chance of getting in wherever you apply pretty much.

They would be if unis used the same valuations as UCAS use for their tariff system. Unfortunately (for the OP), they do not.
and as the OP has correctly identified there are the HL conditions to look at.

[TheGroove]

(Original post by Paulwhy)
They would be if unis used the same valuations as UCAS use for their tariff system. Unfortunately (for the OP), they do not.
and as the OP has correctly identified there are the HL conditions to look at.

Ah, sorry about that. It's strange that UCAS value the IB so much then, why don't they lower the tariff to reflect the Universities' requirements?

[Paulwhy]

(Original post by TheGroove)
Ah, sorry about that. It's strange that UCAS value the IB so much then, why don't they lower the tariff to reflect the Universities' requirements?

Well the unis don't really care that much I guess. There will always be variation between unis and courses so maybe expecting the UCAS Tariffs to be "correct" is asking too much.

Also I think it is fairer to compare IB tariffs with the total tariffs for UK students from all qualifications (e.g. all 4/5/6 A-levels and AS-levels) than with just the points from 3 A-levels. If you do that the discrepency is still there but it is a lot smaller.

[Electric_Dreams]

Thanks for replying to my other thread. This one is excellent, thankyou.

[abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz]

Nice one on this thread will help out alot of people

[Paulwhy]

I have added in data on Durham Offers to post 2:

Do uni make many more offers than they have places?
Short Answer: yes (outside the top 3)

Do you have offers data for any universities?
For 3 cases I have got the offers data as well as the number of applicants and places.
i) For Cambridge in 07/08 there were 1159 applications, 193 Offers and 177 admissions. So the applicant per offer ratio is very close to the applicant per place ratio of 6:1. http://www.cam.ac.uk/admissions/unde...html#economics

ii) For Edinburgh in 07/08 there were 703 applications, 258 offers and 64 admissions. So the applicant per offer ratio is 3 which is only a quarter of the applicant per place ratio of 11:1
http://www.sra.ed.ac.uk/admissions/S...gramme2007.htm

iii) For Durham in 06/07 there were 1,327 applications and 553 offers. So the applicant per offer ratio is about 2.5, which is only a quarter of the applicant per place ratio of 11:1
2006/7 cycle
applications to start in 2007 (deferred applications for starting 2008)
Applications 1200.5 (126.5)
Offers 501 (52.5)
Student Accept offer (Firms or Insurance) 208 (27)
Durham accept student post exams 171.5 (26.5)

applications
http://www.dur.ac.uk/resources/ug.ad...le0607/2-1.pdf

offers
http://www.dur.ac.uk/resources/ug.ad...le0607/2-2.pdf

Applicant replies:
http://www.dur.ac.uk/resources/ug.ad...le0607/2-3.pdf

Confirmation decisions
http://www.dur.ac.uk/resources/ug.ad...le0607/2-4.pdf

[Mglafas]

Many thanks for the replys!

That guide is definitley quite useful, and If it wasn't for the annoying HL requirements i could apply to all of them with a good chance of getting in
So do you think that I could get into unis requiring 6,6,6 HL when i have 7,6,5? For example SOAS.

On another note, is SOAS known for a good economics department?

[jkyng1]

SOAS is okay for economics, but not really GOOD.

[Paulwhy]

(Original post by Mglafas)
Many thanks for the replys!

That guide is definitley quite useful, and If it wasn't for the annoying HL requirements i could apply to all of them with a good chance of getting in
So do you think that I could get into unis requiring 6,6,6 HL when i have 7,6,5? For example SOAS.

On another note, is SOAS known for a good economics department?

Glad that TAELT is quite useful.
Only way to find out what individual unis policy is is to email them directly.
and that should do before you waste one of your five choices on somewhere that will not acept 7,6,5
i.e. unis can use whatever selection criterea they like.

But I would expect more flexability as you go down the list

SOAS is School of African ans Asian Studies, so it is more into general international studies than specifically economics.