This debate has circulated for a while, bubbling under on a few of the societies, and I thought it would be better to tie it together with input from fans of all clubs. It's been had recently on the Liverpool Society and has been alluded to elsewhere too, and I reckon it's worthy of a debate in it's own right.
An article on the Times Online website today struck a few chords with me
What is it that Guinness advert proclaims? "All good things come to those who wait". Well the Footballing Authorities may not have to wait too much longer until their transition of the game is complete. To rid the game of the bad and populate it only with the good. No more rowdy behaviour, no more rebels of society daring to stand up and make their feelings known, no more problems.
Their ideals consist of fans turning up every week, queuing to gain entry in an orderly fashion, having booked their tickets 3 months in advance. Entering the stadium and taking their seats, rising only to applaud goals where they dance along to carefully selected music over the PA, before clearing up their litter and disappearing into the countryside until the following weekend. No hassle, no passion, no noise.
"They'll only miss us once we've gone"
As the game I know and love becomes more diluted by the passing year, I often wonder just when the breaking point will come. When will those authorised with sanitising our game realise the error of their ways? Or can they not actually see that they are breaking the very foundations of what has made this sport a success? Pound signs blur their vision, seen all too often in every walk of life. Greed takes over, people want more. They've exhausted the Premier League "brand" and now have visions of taking it further afield; the infamous "Game 39". Translated to you and me, meaning they have milked pretty much every penny they can from the "consumers" in this country, and now want to tap into the pockets of those football hungry consumers overseas. All in the name of expanding the pockets of the shareholders, players and governing bodies of our sport. Our sport, not theirs.
If I rewind 7 or 8 years; I'm leaving the house on a matchday and making my way to Anfield. There was no need to ring around in the morning; I'd just turn up and walk into one of two or three pubs around the ground, and would bump into people I knew. You knew where everyone would drink, and had done for years. The same faces, the people that made this club what it is. I can pop my head into those same pubs now, and I wouldn't recognise a soul. Those long standing supporters have now all but disappeared, replaced by families from all over, decked out in official replica sportswear and taking pictures of anything that moves. There's a smaller crowd of us left and tend to keep out of the way. We don't conform. Those areas around the ground have now been taken over by the new brigade, while the old guard retreat to pastures further afield.
Year after year, more and more people are dropping away. There's still a hardcore of a few hundred that travel everywhere. There's still thousands that go to every home game just like they always have. But it's becoming harder and harder for these people to carry on. Supporters being replaced by consumers. Participants being replaced by spectators. Just how much higher can the bar be raised by the controlling bodies before they've pushed away everyone that gave the game it's appeal in the first place? What happens when the passion disappears for good? You can't manufacture passion, no matter how hard some clubs try.
They have mascots running up and down the touchline trying to encourage the fans. At Bolton they play "I feel good" when they score, with two young lads running the length of the pitch with big flags. Music played after goals is now commonplace, as if fans don't know how to celebrate a goal by themselves. Is it because they realise the passion is dead and are trying to hang onto a small semblence of it? Or is it aimed at manufacturing a friendly atmosphere to suit their agenda?
Manufactured support; I can't think of anything worse. Handing out those clappers seems to be the next step this season, with the whole of St.Andrews clapping along with them before their opening game. This in a ground that used to be known as one of the most passionate and hostile in football; now transformed into a childrens play ground with everybody doing as they are told. Sat down and singing what the club want them to sing, and clapping when they want them to clap. So sad. Ticket prices on the increase there every season, and a ground I now refuse to visit. £40 for an away ticket some 4 years ago. No thanks. It doesn't take a genius to work out why they barely fill half of that ground any more.
Newcastle had their lowest league attendance for nearly a decade at the weekend, with cash turnstiles in operation, entry for £10 if you bought a replica shirt and other such promotions, but still had thousands of empty seats. Manchester United have been contacting everybody on their mailing lists trying to push season ticket sales again this summer. Whereas Old Trafford used to be like Fort Knox when it came to getting in, they're now closer to resembling one of the happy hour bars in Benidorm, with teenagers stood outside handing out cards with promotional offers to encourage trade. What was once a closed shop, is now opening it's doors and trying to drag people in off the streets.
Is the football bubble about to burst? I hope so.
On Monday night, Portsmouth's most famous fan, the bell ringer with the blue hair, or less commonly known as "John", was approached by the ground staff at Fratton Park and asked to keep the noise down. I'm sure it's not only me that's absolutely staggered by that. Asked to stop ringing his bell and keep the noise down, in a football ground! The mind boggles. But it's another notch on the many that have been made previously, in slowly sanitising the way we support our teams.
We are told we're not allowed to stand up as it's unsafe; yet rugby sides play in exactly the same stadia and those rules don't apply. Apparently it's safe for rugby fans to stand in those same seated areas, but not football fans (the reasons for that I could write a book on, and will address again). It's madness. They're also allowed to drink in their seats while watching the game. I know of a fan that was facing a 3 year football banning after peering over the exits at White Hart Lane to catch a goal he'd missed when coming down early at half time. He'd walked down the steps, was handed a pint by a friend, and heard the roar from the stands. He went halfway back up the steps to see what had happened, when two officers arrested him for consuming alcohol in view of the playing surface. It defies belief. But I'm told we're different. As our friend from Portsmouth has pointed out this week; would this sort of discrimination be accepted anywhere else, or by anyone else, but football fans?
I was on a final warning in my old season ticket seat for foul and abusive language. I was reported by fellow fans for swearing, and risked losing my season ticket. Now in that seat, I was reserved, very reserved. It was on the halfway line and not a noise was made all season by anyone. They were spectators, I'm a participant, or like to be. I want to go to the game and let off some steam. I go to work to pay the bills, put a roof over the family heads, and to enjoy myself during my time off. I choose to do that at the football, something I've grown up with. It's always been a part of who I am. But in that seat, I had to control myself and just sit and watch the game, conforming to those around me for over 7 years. I must have sworn a handful of times in that entire period, when telling the referee where to go or some other trivial slip of the tongue. Yet I faced losing my season ticket and not being able to support my side over it. I was one swear word away from walking away from the game for good. If this was in a family enclosure I'd understand. I know when swearing is unacceptable, and in my view, a football ground is one of those places where it fits.
When I go to the match, I want to stand with fellow fans, my friends. I want to participate in the game, I want to support the side. I want to shout and I want to sing. I want to do the things that made me fall in love with the game and going to the match. But one by one, the authorities are trying to take all those things out of our game. To have us sat in silence, only singing when they want us to sing, and singing the songs they want us to sing. Blaring music over the PA system we are supposed to dance along to. We're unable to create an atmosphere ourselves it seems. For the future, see American sports for how it will go. Club issue foam hands can already be seen, dancing girls have been tried, the list goes on.
Keep sanitising; you'll soon be wondering where it all went wrong, when the very people that made this game what it is, have all long since disappeared. There's not many of us left. Soon there will be none.
Enjoy modern football. Enjoy scratching your heads in some plush office arguing with each other about who's to blame when the crowds start to stay away. I'll be long past the caring stage. You'll have brought it upon yourselves and destroyed a game loved by millions in the process. I hope it's worth it.
So where do you stand on this matter, do you feel the modern era has diluted or changed your clubs support for better or for worse? Do you feel that going to a match should be like going to the pub or a once every now and then luxury and the author is expecting too much?
Do you feel you should be allowed to stand and drink at a football game when gigs and festivals thrive off the raw nature of their crowd, or is it in our best interest to be seated. Am I missing out by virtue of supporting a popular side?
I think you know my feelings mate, so I won't waste your time by writing them again, but the article is as ever spot on. The funny thing is, these things get churned out with increasing regularity, but there are still far more people who aren't prepared to listen than those who are. As the author says, I hope the bubble of football is bursting.
Every cloud though; at least that utter bellend at Pompey was told to **** off.
It's a top tier disease really, and not necessarily present in the lower leagues. If you're sick of the corporate nature of the Premiership game start going to Aldershot Town or Lewes or Wimbledon AFC instead
It's a top tier disease really, and not necessarily present in the lower leagues. If you're sick of the corporate nature of the Premiership game start going to Aldershot Town or Lewes or Wimbledon AFC instead
Is that really fair though?
I'm not sure what I can identify with the support of any of those sides. It's kind of a reverse glory hunter sort of thing.
Believe me it is present in the lower leagues. I've heard reports of £20 admission at Northwich Victoria's league games this season. Tranmere are much the same. I might pop down to an AFCL game perhaps but half of the teams local to Liverpool give it the Michael Sheilds and Murderers ****e. Don't really want to be associating with them do I?!
I agree totally with all the modernisation rubbish happening in football. To be fair a degree of modernisation is acceptable, as we are progressing as a society. Though we are losing touch with REAL football. Bring back terracing and football of yesteryear!
I think you know my feelings mate, so I won't waste your time by writing them again, but the article is as ever spot on. The funny thing is, these things get churned out with increasing regularity, but there are still far more people who aren't prepared to listen than those who are. As the author says, I hope the bubble of football is bursting.
Every cloud though; at least that utter bellend at Pompey was told to **** off.
You are right, I wanted to demerge the quarrelling from the Liverpool thread, I'm pretty interested to hear the views of fans from other sides, especially the London clubs where the footballing culture is so different. You can quite happily waltz through the capital with a Liverpool or United shirt on, whereas I've only ever seen 2 replica United shirts in Liverpool city centre. I'd imagine they were persuaded in a manner to not don said attire again. Rightly so. But that just isn't the culture elsewhere!
I'm not sure what I can identify with the support of any of those sides. It's kind of a reverse glory hunter sort of thing.
Believe me it is present in the lower leagues. I've heard reports of £20 admission at Northwich Victoria's league games this season. Tranmere are much the same. I might pop down to an AFCL game perhaps but half of the teams local to Liverpool give it the Michael Sheilds and Murderers ****e. Don't really want to be associating with them do I?!
Yeah obviously it's not much of an option if you've already been supporting your team for many years. And yes there are still stupid things in the lower leagues as well; they still play 'I feel good' after goals at Dulwich Hamlet for goodness sake.
And also clearly some teams are still awful but you do get the nuggets of good old fashioned support in the lower leagues, much moreso than in the Premiership.
I wouldn't disagree with you there at all, I've got a lot of admiration for the lads that go anywhere with that. In terms of a league structure, England has probably the strongest going, although Barca might be inclined to disagree given Spain's feeder club system.
Can't help but cast an envious eye over to the supporters of Bayern and the likes who have low prices, great history with European Cups in the bank,quality stadia and of course the option to stand and drink in your seat. Great stuff.
yeah the way German teams are run and the price caps on tickets I think is a fantastic fantastic thing. It means the clubs aren't as successful in Europe but then I think a lot of fans would trade long runs in the UEFA cup for £10 matchday tickets.
Premiership tickets are anywhere between £30- £150, the lower down you go the cheaper they get. Tickets to Brighton are £15-£25 and they're in League 1 and play in a converted athletics stadium :/
-Priced out of watching our own club
-Penalised for not buying Season Tickets
-Suits given seats ahead of the true fans
-Over zealous stewarding and the sanitisation of football:
--No standing (aye, that will be right)
--No swearing (see above)
--Some banners banned for being offensive (yet devoid of swear words, bigotry etc...)
--Some flags banned due to one of their many affiliations
--The banning of songs
--No alcohol due to one incident 27 years ago with many other causes than just drunkenness
Unless we right these wrongs, football will be truly lost to us. Even now the working man is being priced out of his own game as overpaid players demand more money in a week than a supporter earns in a year and, when he does get to go, he finds the game a shadow of what it once was. The author has it spot on.
To answer Izaldo's questions more directly:
The modern era has seen the matchday experience change much for the worse. The football may be better, but the cameraderie, atmosphere and even the sense of unity is noticeably missing at Celtic Park.
While I'm not old enough to remember, stories of the Jungle rocking for an Old Firm match and 90,000 cramming in to watch European tie make even today's big nights at CP seem tame. And it's not just nostalgia- everyone feels the same and it is evident on the numerous DVDs of the 70s/80s and even 90s when the club was in the doldrums and there was a cause to rally round. Bring back the good old days, when the atmosphere was as special as the match.
People should at least have the choice between seating and standing- the German model shows terracing is safe and it would definitely lead to an improvement in atmosphere.
Alcohol? People drink before, after and, if they are stealthy, during a game anyway. It would improve the atmosphere and would increase the clubs revenue. Go for it.
As for missing out because it's a popular side, I've been to lower league matches here and they are worse than Celtic's. The prices might be cheaper, but the crowd is less and the stewarding just as tight.
It's a top tier disease really, and not necessarily present in the lower leagues. If you're sick of the corporate nature of the Premiership game start going to Aldershot Town or Lewes or Wimbledon AFC instead
Football is dead. The lower league suffers just as bad as the top division- out of town flatpack stadia, policing and stewarding just as over the top, prices too high. It's not just the top division that has been raped by modern football, believe me.
yeah the way German teams are run and the price caps on tickets I think is a fantastic fantastic thing. It means the clubs aren't as successful in Europe but then I think a lot of fans would trade long runs in the UEFA cup for £10 matchday tickets.
Premiership tickets are anywhere between £30- £150, the lower down you go the cheaper they get. Tickets to Brighton are £15-£25 and they're in League 1 and play in a converted athletics stadium :/
I recall reading an article about Brits popping over to Germany to watch a Bundesliga game all for roughly the same cost as a Prem game (including air fare), plus the existence of cheap beer and terraces in Germany.
Premiership tickets are anywhere between £30- £150, the lower down you go the cheaper they get. Tickets to Brighton are £15-£25 and they're in League 1 and play in a converted athletics stadium :/
crikey moses, WHERE do they charge £150 for a game??! i go to chelsea and sit in the 2nd tier matthew harding in more or less the middle of the pitch, ideal view and it's £45 - still extortionate but definitely not £150!! absolute robbery!
witty and original banter, just what i'd expect from someone who seems to support the "celtic soccer crew"
Celtic Soccer Crew = CSC, and are also comfortably the least threatening mob to ever call themselves a firm. C-18 sponsoring Headhunters on the other hand...
Man City being taken over by a bunch of very rich Arabs today. Apparently bidding a British transfer record fee for Berbatov as well. It'll be even more a rich man's game/billionaire's pastime soon.
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