Difference in level

Im just curious as to what the difference in standard is in maths and other subjects compared to other unis. I go liverpool and never wanted to go a top top uni even though i believed i was capable. Looking at a 3 year degree how much longer would a liverpool uni student have to spend to get up to the same standard of a person who got a 1st at a top uni (may be hard to judge, rough guess tho maybe).

Reply 1

Teebs

8 years 3 months 4 days and 42 seconds. If they were only trying to compete with a 2:1 then it would be roughly 5 years 6 months 3 days, 16 hours and 10 seconds.

These are only rough figures you understand, but you can probably get the right idea from that. The right idea being don't ask stupid questions.

Reply 2

MBenno

People must have an idea otherwise it wouldnt be so important to go. Im wondering, could i get up to same standard a year after my degree, in which case what be the point in the stress of a top uni, 2 years, or have to basically do the whole new course because other unis are backward i dont know.

Reply 3

pyrolol

MBenno

and you are supposed to be an "exalted and worshipped member". People must have an idea otherwise it wouldnt be so important to go. Im wondering, could i get up to same standard a year after my degree, in which case what be the point in the stress of a top uni, 2 years, or have to basically do the whole new course because other unis are backward i dont know.

I would estimate it as between nothing and forever. You say you want to get up to a 1st standard; to do that you'll basically need a 1st in whatever degree you do get; hence if you get a 3rd it probably would take you forever. Realistically, if you are good enough, I can't imagine it being more than a year though. Bear in mind however that if it does turn out your 3 years is equivalent to 2 elsewhere, you would have to work solidly for the best part of a year; being unable to earn much money, and probably under considerable stress (after all; you have the same work to do, and more than usual to make ends meet (no loan etc.)). On the other hand if you work hard, you might find there's no difference at all; but expect that to be more stressful than going there in the first place (working is easier when you have some pressure and can't just put it off).

I'm not even going to go into whatever skills or knowledge you might gain from university not directly regarding passing exams. Also remember the start standard is very variable - you mentioned maths; it's a bit of a special case in that Cambridge (and to a lesser extent Warwick; plus a handful of others who took it for fun) students will have had to train themselves for STEP, which probably gives a month or two of advantage over people of equal ability who just did their A Levels.

(By the way, the "_____ member" titles just refer to post count.)

Reply 4

Teebs

MBenno

Your 'anonymous' attempt at negging me failed to even change my rep points by 1.

Let's explain why it is a stupid question shall we:

1) There is no fixed standard between universities.
2) It's not like you can do an extra year at Liverpool of 'catch up with the top universities'.
3) The top universities are not homogeneous (that means all the same) in quality, especially when you ask about 'maths and other subjects'.
4) I'm pretty sure there is no such thing as a typical Liverpool student.
5) Your idea of standard is pretty meaningless as it is. What exactly do you mean? Have covered just as much material? Be just as intelligent? Be as desirable to employers.

If I hadn't already negged Necessarily Benevolent today I'd neg you back and it would hurt you more than it hurt me.

Reply 5

MBenno

pyrolol

cheers, that is what i was looking for. I believe im capable as i really only work a few days before the exams and im doing well. Im just looking to feel better in my choice, as i chose my uni being close to home and having a bit of stereotypical view of some people who apply to such unis.

Reply 6

MBenno

Teebs

Firstly, thank you for finding the need to point out the meaning of homogeneous. You are one of a handful of people ive ever repped and I care little for it. There may not be a "catch up" year, and i think its a reasonable question to ask as i believe the other answer given to be useful. You seem to be going out of your way to attack the thread, how big you must feel.

Reply 7

CarneLevare

If you want to come to your own conclusions, you can always just look at the exam papers here - http://www.maths.ox.ac.uk/current-students/undergraduates/examinations/past-papers (Mods are first year exams, finals are latter year exams, with A numbered papers corresponding to second year, B to 2nd etc.)

Reply 8

pedy1986

MBenno

If you are only being required to work for a few days for an exam preparation, then I would be more worried about the quality of your course.

Reply 9

MBenno

cor

If you are only being required to work for a few days for an exam preparation, then I would be more worried about the quality of your course.

exactly, i am worried about the possible lack of quality and that the gulf between the top unis is bigger than i thought

Reply 10

MBenno

thanks for the link by the way

Reply 11

Arrogant Git

MBenno

I don't know. I do know, from unistats.com that Liverpool give out more firsts in Maths per year than Cambridge.

Make of that what you will, but given that Cambridge ask for STEP and Further Maths and rarely make any offer less than AAA+STEP, and Liverpool ask for ABB, generally (not including FM), it suggests that there is a fairly large difference.

I study maths at Cambridge and it is apparent (looking at past exam papers up on the Liverpool website) where the gap is. It seems that maths at Liverpool tests knowledge of the course material, but not understanding, while the Cambridge exams test both of those. I reckon, if you were hard working enough, you could get a decent mark in Liverpool maths (first or high 2.I) by just learning how to do the questions on past papers- there seems to be very little variation year on year and the questions seem the same but with the numbers changed. That's not the case in Cambridge- exam questions generally have two parts - the first to test knowledge of the course (proving some well-known result, for example) followed by a application of that result that tests how well you understand it. The course is slightly more advanced, too, owing to not having to teach everyone further maths.

If you want to know how different it is, have a look at the Cambridge past papers: Cam Maths. Answering about 3 'section B' questions in full per paper will get you near enough a first.

How are you worried about the gulf in quality. Employment prospects or academic prospects? Employment-wise you have little to worry about- getting a first anywhere means you're motivated, hard working and pretty clever. Academically, there is a gap, more in the depth of understanding than the content.