Year 12s: what will be the first way you research your future options? >>

How seriously do you take league tables?

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Reply 20

WOLLSMOTH

cpj1987

I have my own mind, too. :biggrin:

Yes, but is it wise to ignore the opinions of your potential future employers?

Reply 21

OiaB

about as seriously as we take you

Reply 22

Norfolkadam

I flicked through the Good University Guide when picking mine and discovered the Uni I had put my priority into was a bit crap so I changed my first choice.

Other than that, not at all important. It's all about location, campus and course for me not about performance.

Reply 23

hermaphrodite

not seriously at all. i think they are the biggest amount of bollox

Reply 24

Meteorshower

WOLLSMOTH

Yes, but is it wise to ignore the opinions of your potential future employers?

Surely it's better to ensure you are going to enjoy your degree by going somewhere you want to...

Reply 25

cpj1987

WOLLSMOTH

Yes, but is it wise to ignore the opinions of your potential future employers?

a) My potential future employers (being in the television industry) look for skill and talent over league table position.

b) Even if I wasn't going into a career in the television industry, I'd rather make the best possible choice than the one a specific employer told me to make. Any employer who'd choose league table position over other things that I consider much more important wouldn't be one I'd want to work for anyway.

Reply 26

prospectivEEconomist

WOLLSMOTH

Yes, but is it wise to ignore the opinions of your potential future employers?

How did they calculate the employers table in the THES league table?

Reply 27

-Em-

Course rankings were marginally important, but how good the Music Department is, how much the Sports Centre cost and what the positive destination rate for Sociology students is had absolutely no bearing on which Computer Science department I chose.

If you're looking for a decent grid position at the start of the rat race, then I guess the name itself might be of some use to you.

Reply 28

WOLLSMOTH

A university with a high number of international staff and students aren't necessarily then going to be well known internationally.
This is your opinion
Also, that's a massive assumption. The vast majority of undergraduates will be looking to remain in this country anyway.
Well, they are naively restricting their options
What's more, employers will be conerned with far more than just uni name.
This is 100% not true for Law and IB. Employers in other careers will be concerned also but not to that extent
Also (and this is the same issue that you have constantly ignored) a graduate from one of the lesser known unis (nationally and internationally) may not find their employment prospects affected at all. If it's in an industry where there's a great demand for workers, and the degree was accredited by a worldwide recognised professional body (such as RICS) then your job application (in this case as a surveyor) isn't going to be particularly damaged by going to a lesser known uni (Coventry, Anglia Ruskin, Kingston...).
A quick google search found me this advert

Careerstructure.com/UKSurveyor Search 10000s of UK Surveyor Jobs at Careerstructure and Apply Now

Plus a number of the smaller, but excellent, universities who don't do as well in the world rankings are arguably better known then a number of the larger ones who outrank them (even if they aren't fantastically well known).
Again, you're naively restricted your future options. In 5 years time maybe you will want to move to Australia or Canada?
Finally, the THES world rankings are even more eccentric than domestic rankings. At least with domestic rankings you may have unis climbing or falling by a few places a year. Sometimes there can be a significant difference in the THES rankings. A uni may be 63rd one year, 132nd the next, then 109th the next. A reliable indication?
I've read their methodology and it seems highly reasonable considering it is a WORLD WIDE ranking.
Finally, what makes the THES rankings more reliable than the other world rankings around (who can have quite different results) and should subject expertise also be important?
Care to suggest a world ranking which you feel is more reliable?

Reply 29

Danielle89

League tables dont even figure up here as far as I know. Pretty much all Scottish unis are worth going to - you'd have thought it'd be the same south of the border but evidently not.

Reply 30

tommorris

I pay no attention to it at all. When applying to university, I did not read any 'Good University Guide' or league tables or any of that stuff. I did seek out opinions who work in the field. I also consulted the QAA's teaching quality information.

For a great number of courses, there are distinguishing factors which make it impossible to have some kind of general list like those of the league tables worth bothering with. There are plenty of instances of people who I would strongly suggest going to a "bottom half of the Times league table" institution to, because that place is excellent at teaching that particular subject.

Choosing what university to go to by it's ranking in a newspaper seems a bit like choosing what CD to purchase on the basis of it's position on the chart. I mean, the album at number 12 is interesting, but the one at number 11 must be better - the chart tells me so!

Reply 31

River85

WOLLSMOTH

This is your opinion

Yes and opinions are like arseholes I suppose. What with the constant ignorance your display of higher education I certainly don't take yours very seriously.

WOLLSMOTH

Well, they are naively restricting their options]

Again, an expert of graduate employment (and what employers are looking for) despite being some 15 year old who isn't even at university?

WOLLSMOTH

This is 100% not true for Law and IB. Employers in other careers will be concerned also but not to that extent

See the point above. Also, those are only two areas. They are a tiny fraction of the entire graduate jobs.

Also, law is opening up. Probably only city firms or the bar will be particularly bothered about uni rep. These already know which unis are the elite and don't need to rely on league tables/THES rankings.

The same internationally, to a lesser extent (and also a degree in english and welsh (or Scottish) law from a UK university isn't going to get you too far in many other countries so you'd need to convert anyway.

WOLLSMOTH

[A quick google search found me this advert
Plus a number of the smaller, but excellent, universities who don't do as well in the world rankings are arguably better known then a number of the larger ones who outrank them (even if they aren't fantastically well known).
Again, you're naively restricted your future options. In 5 years time maybe you will want to move to Australia or Canada?]

What's the relevance of that advert?

Also, as I explained in my earlier post, if a person wanted to work in Australia or Canada (and had attended one of those universities) they would not be at a disadvantage. Their degree from Kingston would still, after a couple of years of working and further assesment, have allowed them to achieve professional status (a chartered surveyor) with the initials MRICS after their name. This, and their work experience, will be far more important to an employer than which uni they went to (whose degree allowed the candidate to reach professional status anyway).

The same goes for engineering, some health degrees, architecture....(in other words, far more jobs than just IB and law).

WOLLSMOTH

Care to suggest a world ranking which you feel is more reliable?

No but that's because all league tables have their bias and, depending on weighting, can have drastically different results. That's why I don't take them too seriously. I may use subject tables as a guide but that's it.

In the end, I don't see why the number of international staff or students should be that big a factor and does favour the larger, particularly London based, unis. This is not a reliable indication of international reputation and, even it it was, certainly doesn't concern me.

Reply 32

WOLLSMOTH

River85

Also, as I explained in my earlier post, if a person wanted to work in Australia or Canada (and had attended one of those universities) they would not be at a disadvantage. Their degree from Kingston would still, after a couple of years of working and further assesment, have allowed them to achieve professional status (a chartered surveyor) with the initials MRICS after their name. This, and their work experience, will be far more important to an employer than which uni they went to (whose degree allowed the candidate to reach professional status anyway).

I don't believe surveying is in demand to that extent. Do you have any proof? Also.. you think you can do a postgraduate in a degree which you haven't studied at undergraduate?

Reply 33

Peanut42

WOLLSMOTH

I don't believe surveying is in demand to that extent. Do you have any proof? Also.. you think you can do a postgraduate in a degree which you haven't studied at undergraduate?

Australian immigration operates on a points system, so those with skills that are in higher demand get more points. If there is, for example, a lack of surveyers they will get more points regardless of their uni. However if there isn't a shortage of lawyers, then a lawyer (who may have a degree from a better uni) would get less points than the surveyor.

All hypothetical of course, but do you see my point?

Reply 34

βored

League tables change and contradict each other so I didn't depend on any of them to choose my universities for me. Instead I searched on TSR for universities with a good reputation for my course, narrowed down my choices by looking at university websites and prospectuses and then made my final decision after going to the post offer open days.

Reply 35

prospectivEEconomist

WOLLSMOTH

I don't believe surveying is in demand to that extent. Do you have any proof? Also.. you think you can do a postgraduate in a degree which you haven't studied at undergraduate?

I think Surveying is in demand, but students just do not want to study it. The best university for it is Reading and they only ask for ABB...I swear even silly courses like sociology ask for higher grades at some unis lol.

Reply 36

prash_s90

league tables are my bible and Qaran

Reply 37

TheOneWho

WOLLSMOTH

I don't believe surveying is in demand to that extent. Do you have any proof? Also.. you think you can do a postgraduate in a degree which you haven't studied at undergraduate?