The Official 'Vent Your Anger Out' Thread

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Elles

extra, extra..read all about it..

'Cambridge University have an abundance of good applicants & reject the majority of them!'

unless you have some sort of angle or political point to make (which is what both notyourpunk & i were trying to say probably isn't especially productive to individuals applicants or the uni).. i don't see how this earth shattering fact warrants media coverage..? :wink:

unless perhaps a detailed breakdown of all the academic & personal factors of all applicants should be published in the papers & readers could call hotlines to vote on who they deem to be the most worthy? hmm, should we have accompanying photos too? i'm being slightly ridiculous here, i know, to emphasise my point.. :p:

While individual stories can characterise a statistics (a single rejection is a tragedy, a 1000 a statistic as good old jo stalin would say) they tend to alter peoples view irrevocably. the oxbridge process seems to make parents and friends lose all sense of reality. my mum and her friends were convinced it was because we were too rich too poor too white too middle class too public school not from the right public school not british enough too right handed too straight too gay. few people would suggest that it was your fault (even in the nicest of terms) and that you were obviously good but not quite good enough. however this year now that ive got in its becuase of my hard work, honesty and integrity and has nothing to do with my demographic and socioeconomic profile.
the process is a lottery, yes in a perfect world they would take the best qualified candidates and this does not happen at the moment beucase of differences between schools, home backgrounds and various other factors but oxbridge is not a mechanism nor should it be a mechanism for social engineering. lets face it reead through the posts its damn difficult to keep up especially in the sciences. even if people who are rejected are obviously clever there is little oxbirdge can do if they dont believe they can keep up with the process, even if they believed that if they had attended canford, radley, eton, harrow they would have managed. however there is no inbuilt bias in the system, sure the occasional tutor might be (as has been demonstrated on occasion) racist, sexist or a little too partial to a large donation to the college the system is about as effective as it can be. mistakes are made, if you believe they have made a mistake reapply
sorry for the rant, it wasnt supposed to bei just kept typing and didnt realise how long i had been going on for :biggrin:

Reply 41

Bumblebee3

Saagar

Yes, but I agree with Juxtapiped. I mean how can one possibly take a whole year out simply to apply to oxbridge. I mean the chances will be the same as the previous year and so its too much of a risk when you look at the consequences involved. Obviously this doesn't take anything away from those who did reapply and get in but when you look at the many others who are rejected again you have to wonder was it worth it?

Sorry to point this out when you must be feeling crappy, but the chances are by no means necessarily the same. Late teenage years are the most formative and a gap year spent constructivly gaining study time and experience could greatly increase an applicant's chances of being offered a place (with some exceptions in the sciences where they don't like gap years.) However, obviously taking an undesired gap year with all hope set on an oxbridge place is a bad idea and is unlikely to change the outcome.

Reply 42

Adhsur

Thought I'd just chip in and remind people that reapplying does work, as it has in my case. Of course I would have been upset if I didnt get in this time round (as many are) but I am all for a gap to reapply. You can do all sorts in the gap and getting into your dream uni is a bonus. What's a year compared to a lifetime of "what if?"s?

Reply 43

parallelduck

Bumblebee3

place (with some exceptions in the sciences where they don't like gap years.)

I think this highly depends on the science you go for. I applied for NatSci Bio deferred, which didn't seem to be a problem. I asked an admissions tutor about Gap years and Cambridge NatSci applications and he said that, though they were not undesirable they preferred their candidates to be doing something 'structured' during the intervening time.

However, I had a friend apply to Oxford for Computer Science deferred. Oxford phoned him and said they would only give him an offer if he skipped the Gap year. *shrugs*

Reply 44

InterCity125

notyourpunk

Contact the media, how brilliant so they can have a field day at proving that Oxbridge is [insert racist, anti private school, anti whatever) there are limitations on the number of people oxbridge can take who are not EU citizens and i believe that would possibly make it more competitive. no one can really say for sure why they got rejected or got in and contacting the media, as pervious cases demonstrate is normally anything but productive

He is more likely to count as a home student, than an international

Reply 45

stephx

also note that a worthwhile gap year doesn't *necessarily* have to mean trekking across the world and stopping off to build a well in africa, teach english in china and babysit in an american summer camp along the way.

i'm spending my gap year sat in an office every day, and yes, it is boring. but at the end of the day, after my spends this year and provisions for next, i'll have £6k+ in my back pocket AND a student loan on top of that.

in short: any gap year can be made into a worthwhile one no matter how last minute or mundane it is.

at the end of it all you will either have loads of money, have had a great time, or... (shock horror) both!!! :eek:

and anyway, whats a year in the grand scheme of things?

the chances are by no means the same as the previous year. you have your results in the bag, possibly including a whole load of AEA's that first years won't have, a whole extra year studying your subject, were probably pooled last year so already have a good chance, will have an extra year's maturity/confidence, and will have more time to read around your subject once your exams are out of the way. its generally accepted that a higher percentage of post-alevel applicants receive offers.

Reply 46

CamSPSer

parallelduck

However, I had a friend apply to Oxford for Computer Science deferred. Oxford phoned him and said they would only give him an offer if he skipped the Gap year. *shrugs*

They have to compare deferring students at a group of candidates they haven't seen when the abilities of the candidates are featherswidth apart. therefore they tend to be more demanding of gap year candidates. they may well also have had some omre impressive people who wanted to gap and didnt want to fill up too many places. did your friend decide to gap? or did he take the place?

Reply 47

Bumblebee3

parallelduck

As I said, with *some* exceptions. Guys, whilst a gap year isn't a good idea for everyone - it would have to be structured and you would have to get more out of it than a blown up hope of getting in 2nd time - you should not dismiss it. For those who have the discipline and the drive it can be very rewarding and can change your life - just ask Adhsur.

Reply 48

CamSPSer

InterCity125

He is more likely to count as a home student, than an international

for university entry
(c) Refugees
A person, or the spouse or child of a person, who
(i) is recognised by the Government officially as a refugee;
or
(ii) has been granted in writing exceptional leave by the Home Office to enter or remain in the United Kingdom, though considered not to qualify for recognition as a refugee;
with the situation in afghanistan as it is, for better or worse i believe the home office is sending back refugess. also for medicine i believe it is nationality rather than fee status that counts. they are only allowed to give a certain number of medical places to non EU students, dictated by some govt or NHS commitee. unless you have EU citizneship i would iamgine it would be damn difficult to get into medicine from abroad

Reply 49

parallelduck

notyourpunk

did your friend decide to gap? or did he take the place?

Yes, he did. The reasoning behind it was, apparently, that the computer science course is intensely maths based and your maths peak is at about 18 - it all goes down from there.

I never could decide whether Gapping put you at an advantage, or disadvante. They could decide that you're not good enough to compare against applicants who haven't applied yet, or that since you're only one of a few how've applied for deferred, you're one of the best they've seen.

All random musings rather than anything expecting a straight answer.

Reply 50

CamSPSer

parallelduck

who knows? the more i read on this forum the more im convinced that its a lottery in some respects. its generally accepted i believe that gapping puts you at a slight disadvantage i believe. though if you apply during your gap year it seems anecdotally that you are more likely to get in

Reply 51

goneaway56

notyourpunk

I think the lottery part tends to be ignored when applying to Oxbridge; ultimately the whole process is subjective and based on opinion of strangers.

I think pretty much everyone is equally qualified in terms of grades (it seems that many people, including me, got rejected with straight A grades at AS and predictions), and on paper, all candidates are fairly similar.

I only wish that exams really differenciated between the top candidates. For example my UMS's go 281/274/269 and 240 (french, history, economics and maths). My mathematical ability is shockingly poor compared to my other subjects, and yet the grades are the same. Go figure :confused:

. I know the Cambridge SAQ is used, but I have the feeling it doesn't make the same impact of a lower grade. After all, they are just numbers.

Oh well, my rant is over (you can relax now!)

Reply 52

Tyler Durden

I am not angry as such. I am upset. This is my second time in the pool now. So effectively when my rejection comes it will be my 4th one from Cambridge. I regret going for it again now. I had an offer to go to Durham (they haven't given me another one yet this year) but I turned it down to have another go for Cambridge. I suppose it was just arrogance on my part, thinking they had made a mistake and I was good enough. But they were right and I was wrong. It's not easy to accept and I expect I am handling it really badly.

Reply 53

goneaway56

englishstudent

Being in the pool twice is so unlucky. Keep faith, I'm sure Durham or Cambridge will respond! :smile:

Reply 54

Wagamuffin

I think what really increases the bitterness is that Oxbridge applicants are all usually so excellent that they have rarely (if ever at all) faced rejection before in their lives.

I think the fact that you achieved this much Elles means you can do much mroe without Cam's medicine so to hell with it. Besides, as I see it a medicine degree ensures employment and prestige and all from wherever it is.

Englishstudent I think getting into the pool already means you are "good enough"; well my close friend at school was pooled at Trinity english lit, and he is my superior many times over, I can tell you that.

Reply 55

saram

Wagamuffin

I think what really increases the bitterness is that Oxbridge applicants are all usually so excellent that they have rarely (if ever at all) faced rejection before in their lives.

I definitely agree with you.. and what's more, I think that having so many people having so many expectations for you isn't helping either..

Reply 56

Reema

Wagamuffin

I think what really increases the bitterness is that Oxbridge applicants are all usually so excellent that they have rarely (if ever at all) faced rejection before in their lives.

That really is a key point there...I remember thinking that at least the rejection when it came would increase my experience and allow me to recognise that you can't always get what you want. Which in a roundabout way can be beneficial for you, but a lot of people unfortunately allow themselves to be consumed by bitterness for the rest of their life (and never learn from the experience).

Reply 57

goneaway56

Reema

But its all too easy to say from those who got offers . . .

Reply 58

Adhsur

Zarathustra

Ask Adhsur - I'm sure I picked up from some thread or other that she got feedback before reapplying!

Yes I must stress this to everyone thinking of reapplying. Before you decide, you MUST get feedback from your college (email them and ask for it before it's too late and they have disposed of it). My feedback was ultimately what made me reapply - it was 90% positive, and the 10% that was bad was what I knew I could definitely improve on, i.e. my grades and my logic.

Also, DO accept an offer from a different uni just in case your A level grades make it useless reapplying. Then if your A levels are good (at least AAA) you can decline the place you hold and reapply. In either case, make your decision after you get your grades in August.

Reply 59

gringalet

I think [re]applying after getting your A-levels can be a good idea if your GCSEs aren't millions of A*s and the such. In fact, I think I would recommend that to most people who think they have potential, but haven't really shown it in the past – wait until doing your A-levels, and then apply. Grades are an important factor, however much we'd like to think they aren't.

Personally, I don't think I can be bothered reapplying. The KCL courses are actually slightly better than the Cambridge one for my subjects, and it's still a bloody good uni; the only major downside is the cost London is going to be. I'm thinking of trying to defer entry and spend a year working in some office and making loads of money, and probably spending a couple of months in Germany and Greece. Maybe if I do this, and get a pretty good feedback, I might consider reapplying, or even trying Oxford, but it hasn't really got much appeal for me at the moment.

In the end, Oxbridge is not the only ticket to success anymore – yes, it does hold that X-factor, but it doesn't guarantee you happiness. And what's the most important? *beautiful sickly note to end on*