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Reply 40
timeofyourlife
tomorrow morning? :eek: i'm sure TSR could do without your moderation for the evening - at least look at something medicine-related at the same time.
by the way, i don't know any more on this topic than you do; not having done neuro yet means i'm just going by what i've read in the sBMJ / journals.




Well tomorrow's exam is a stupid English Language excersice. So not really much revision to do there other than practice papers, of which i've done my last 2 already today.

As for the topic of depression, I think much of the problem is that nobody really knows much about what is going on, this unfortunately, from my neuro experience seems to be a common theme and doesn't help with what is already a confusing area.
Reply 41
kitsune
WAUUUUUUUU THE SAME WAY I THINK!!! There are very few clever people in the world... I'm not alone :p:


Sure, there is a difference between feeling depressed and actually having a (clinical) depression. However, it's not wrong to be depressed, cause there certainly are situations in life which are difficult (and at that particular moment seem impossible) to deal with and make people unhappy (break up, unemployment, illness, death,..).
For clinical depressions: The statistic says that about every 10th to 6th person has clinical depressions at one point in his life (that's a German statistic). Clincial depressions are due to a lack of "transmitter substances" (I don't know the exact word in English) in one's brain. Therefore it has to do with a damage in the chemistry of one's brain.
Reply 42
MelChEng
Sure, there is a difference between feeling depressed and actually having a (clinical) depression. However, it's not wrong to be depressed, cause there certainly are situations in life which are difficult (and at that particular moment seem impossible) to deal with and make people unhappy (break up, unemployment, illness, death,..).
For clinical depressions: The statistic says that about every 10th to 6th person has some sort of depression. People don't chose to have this - in most cases it is due to a lack of "transmitter substances" (I don't know the exact word in English) in one's brain. Therefore it has to do with a damage in the chemistry of one's brain.

*neurotransmitters* is the word your looking for methinks.
But this is by no means proven.
Reply 43
Daveo
*neurotransmitters* is the word your looking for methinks.
But this is by no means proven.



I found this post quite interesting (in D&D)..

granddad_bob
the chemical imbalanaces in the brain are almost always a symtom of depression, not a cause. low norepinephrine and serotonin levels are due to a lack of happiness or pleasure, which is why doctors hand out antidepressants. once a depressant returns to "normal", the inbalance will no longer be there. thus 99% of the time neurotransmitters don't cause clinical depression.


i looked it up, and he appears to be right with respect to current research.
Reply 44
timeofyourlife
I found this post quite interesting (in D&D)..



i looked it up, and he appears to be right with respect to current research.

Hmmm interesting.
Thinking about it, I do vaguely recollect reading something to that effect but it just confuses me even more.
It's like understanding memory - thats the most confusing thing in the world! :frown:
Reply 45
Daveo
Hmmm interesting.
Thinking about it, I do vaguely recollect reading something to that effect but it just confuses me even more.
It's like understanding memory - thats the most confusing thing in the world! :frown:


I'm quite looking forward to it *hides in corner* Surely the brain must be about 100x more interesting than the renal system. The neurological basis of appetite makes me salivate at the thought :wink:
Reply 46
Daveo

It's like understanding memory - thats the most confusing thing in the world! :frown:


*currently trying to write an essay on the Limbic System*. :frown:

TOYL - 100 x more interesting.. & maybe x 1000 more difficult? :wink:
Reply 47
timeofyourlife
I'm quite looking forward to it *hides in corner* Surely the brain must be about 100x more interesting than the renal system. The neurological basis of appetite makes me salivate at the thought :wink:

LOL! Oh yeah its very interesting, unfortunately just hard.
Reply 48
Elles
*currently trying to write an essay on the Limbic System*. :frown:

TOYL - 100 x more interesting.. & maybe x 1000 more difficult? :wink:

:mad: I HATE the limbic system, I was reading a chapter on it earlier and it almost killed me!
Reply 49
Elles
TOYL - 100 x more interesting.. & maybe x 1000 more difficult? :wink:


You're more appeasing when you're trying to seduce people..

OK, so maybe I'm slightly underestimating how hard neuro is going to be.
Reply 50
Daveo
:mad: I HATE the limbic system, I was reading a chapter on it earlier and it almost killed me!


was bad sign when only one of my texts has a specific chapter on it as 'the limbic system' - the rest just have 100s of references in about every other chapter. :hmpf:
3 pages in.. not exactly crystal clear where it is, what's involved or what it does yet - maybe the breakthrough will come in the next 3 (!)

TOYL - "people"? it might be just you..because you're "special"? :adore: :wink:
Reply 51
Camford
If he's half as emotional as you are I'd glad. He doesn't express his emotions all that often. And that is not good for him.


Dunno about your friend but I personally think a lot and that can get depressing if life isn't going well. You know, maybe suggest that he should write things down - nobody would read it, and it's a way of letting it out. I find writing immensely helpful! Or just suggest some sort of way of expressing himself, draw, play music, lol or pray, even if he's not religious. Praying usually gives me some peace. Or play sports and smack the ball around let out some anger or whatever he's feeling. Just any way to let it out that doesn't involve talking I guess, otherwise try and encourage him to talk to someone.

And if you wanna do more than just "be there" maybe just let him know that you care, leave room for him to talk if he needs to, but otherwise just be normal - be your usual self and try and cheer him up. Dunno really not much you can do.

****

And Laxy, it doesn't actually matter whether clinical depression or whatever depression may be a "minority" it doesn't actually matter how many people actually get depressed - what matters is your friend who is depressed is going through a hard time and it's serious to them if not to you - so as a friend even if you can't understand the reasons, you should still be more understanding and try to understand and just show that you care, not tell them to get a life. Sorry I just didn't particularly like your attitude towards depression, maybe you didn't mean it, but depression is a serious thing and should be treated seriously and with respect. And anyway when you care about someone, who cares if they're depressed for no reason you just want them to be happy again!

To be honest I'm not even sure I actually went through depression but some people reckoned it was - never went to any doctors so still not sure really. But if a close encounter with depression without actually being in depression felt that terrible, then it's all the more reason why we should treat the people who are actually depressed with care. Not sure how long my suicidal period went on for but I did actually check out the net for any drugs that would kill me :rolleyes: and yep thought nobody would miss me and I'm a load of trash. God helped me loads during that. :smile: I don't think I was ever depressed enough to actually go through with suicide though cus I don't like the pain :rolleyes: although at one point I'm pretty sure I could've gone through with it.

Alaric is that depression? I think it is but I'm really not sure!
irisng
lol or pray, even if he's not religious.
It's called meditation.
Don't patronise people by imposing theism. ^_^

Or play sports and smack the ball around let out some anger or whatever he's feeling.

As a man, I can say that depression is very different from straight anger.
In some cases you really do want to bash something, yes. But that's when you feel tense and frustrated.
Depression... is more like feeling deflated. You're empty. A distinct testosterone low.

Though these things are all personal, perhaps I shouldn't generalise.

And if you wanna do more than just "be there" maybe just let him know that you care, leave room for him to talk if he needs to, but otherwise just be normal - be your usual self and try and cheer him up.

That's more like it.
Just be sure to offer support, not impose it.

And Laxy... Sorry I just didn't particularly like your attitude towards depression, maybe you didn't mean it, but depression is a serious thing and should be treated seriously and with respect.

Quite. :hmpf:

The attitude that non-clinical depression doesn't exist and that everyone should
"shut up and get on with it" is filled with unthinking machismo.
- It smacks of a lack of emotional intelligence.
Reply 53
irisng
Alaric is that depression? I think it is but I'm really not sure!

Well I'm not a doctor or anything, but if that went on for a reasonable period of time it's quite likely. One of the characteristics I've found from talking to other people who've been depressed is that there really doesn't have to be any reason for any of it. I tend to use that as a kind of measure when I talk to people, if something has caused it it can usually be easier to deal with. Generally I think you know the answer though, doctors just add labels (and try to help I guess).
The overthinking that you talk about really doesn't help does it :p:

crazydaveuk
As a man, I can say that depression is very different from straight anger.
In some cases you really do want to bash something, yes. But that's when you feel tense and frustrated.
Depression... is more like feeling deflated. You're empty. A distinct testosterone low.

Though these things are all personal, perhaps I shouldn't generalise.

I went a lot more angry as I came out of it for a few months, it's very different to being angry. You can control being angry, I occasionally went into a blind fury, a couple of times provoked by other things and a few times just by my thoughts. There's a fair few bits of dented plaster and *ahem* a large hole in walls around my house where they've been punched or headbutted. It's not fun and it's pretty shameful. I could probably have hurt people I love when I was like that, so I used to take off to a room or something where people aren't.
I'm generally not like that now though people, I'm safe :smile:. I don't ever feel as bad as I was and I know when I'm starting to go that way (so I fairly gently but repeatedly headbutt walls until it hurts, which usually works nicely).

Ok, so that makes me sound a bit like a freak! I'm not really, honest, I was just pretty much emotionally totally out of control for a while. Anyway, not the kind of thing most people will admit to in public, perhaps I ought'nt to either, I dunno :rolleyes:.

A.
PS: :argh: :afraid: <--- psycho me, woooo :smile:
Reply 54
!Laxy!
Not being horrible to your friend. But i really can't stand people who say they are depressed. You have no right to be depressed. Life is too short. You should get up and do something constructive.

Sometimes you feel sad and I doubt any kind of rationalisation about why you're sad can make it go away. No one wants to be depressed.
Reply 55
Alaric
I'm tempted to say there are a lot of miserable people who are treated as depressive, it's not the same thing but it's very easily confused by people who haven't experienced it.

Sound advice, Alaric. I know one of those people and it was a real problem. It's best to be cautious about medication in these situations I think.

I'd recommend that your friend speaks to one of the tutors at college, or maybe the Chaplain. If talking seems to help, the university offer free counselling (info on www.counselling.cam.ac.uk) and Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, which I've heard is very good but apparently has quite a long waiting list. Personally, I'd avoid taking medication before counselling. My friend took quite a while to adjust to the medication and felt ill for ages. Also, you can't drink on it so I guess it could be a little isolating if you're already feeling upset.

As Alaric says, staying in bed is not a good way of coping. If your friend is sleeping longer or can't sleep at night so sleeps through the morning, maybe you could try knocking on their door in the morning to wake them up? It might sound silly, but at this time of year it could be Seasonally Affected Disorder (I think that's what it's called!) and more light and exercise could help your friend a bit. I guess that could help for anyone - I've just moved rooms and really appreciate the extra light in my new room.

Your college Welfare Officer should have some further information about this. If you don't want to contact them but want the information, PM me - my welfare folder is about 18 inches away from my computer and I'm happy to send it to you. It can be very, very hard to help someone with depression and there will probably be lots of times when you don't really know what to do, but being there is REALLY important. Especially in Cambridge it's really easy to get caught up in other things, but your friend will really appreciate the effort.

I'm very disappointed to see such a lack of sympathy from some of you. :frown: It doesn't really matter whether this is clinical depression or just a down phase, and whether there's a 'TSR approved' reason for it or not. The point is that someone's friend is going through a rough patch and needs some help! CUSU are running a Mental Health Week this term, maybe you should consider some of the events on offer.

Hope this helps, Camford!
Reply 56
Alaric
Well I'm not a doctor or anything, but if that went on for a reasonable period of time it's quite likely. One of the characteristics I've found from talking to other people who've been depressed is that there really doesn't have to be any reason for any of it. I tend to use that as a kind of measure when I talk to people, if something has caused it it can usually be easier to deal with. Generally I think you know the answer though, doctors just add labels (and try to help I guess).
The overthinking that you talk about really doesn't help does it :p:


I went a lot more angry as I came out of it for a few months, it's very different to being angry. You can control being angry, I occasionally went into a blind fury, a couple of times provoked by other things and a few times just by my thoughts. There's a fair few bits of dented plaster and *ahem* a large hole in walls around my house where they've been punched or headbutted. It's not fun and it's pretty shameful. I could probably have hurt people I love when I was like that, so I used to take off to a room or something where people aren't.
I'm generally not like that now though people, I'm safe :smile:. I don't ever feel as bad as I was and I know when I'm starting to go that way (so I fairly gently but repeatedly headbutt walls until it hurts, which usually works nicely).

Ok, so that makes me sound a bit like a freak! I'm not really, honest, I was just pretty much emotionally totally out of control for a while. Anyway, not the kind of thing most people will admit to in public, perhaps I ought'nt to either, I dunno :rolleyes:.

A.
PS: :argh: :afraid: <--- psycho me, woooo :smile:


No overthinking really does not help! :rolleyes:

And hey you're not a psycho! *hugs* I never actually got angry - but a few times I was angry with God and angry with myself and since I do hate the sting of knives, I did bash around instead of doing that myself... :rolleyes: Well to be precise I did bash my head with a metal pencil-case... it's rather dented - still using it for carrying art pencils and stuff. Didn't do much damage to me but it seemed to make me feel better at the time. Don't do it now it really does hurt! I was more the type to just hide and cry though and basically wanted to sleep all the time and not get up. Lol now I sound like a psycho too :rolleyes: I'm not!

Not sure banging your head against the wall is a good idea - damages you brain it slams against the walls of your skull it's bad for you!

And I *sort of* had a reason - guilt in relation to my faith and stuff - but it was really something trivial but it started snowballing off into lack of self-worth etc etc. Not sure why I ever got like that tbh the reason behind it wasn't that big at all but it's all psychology I guess. Thinking about it, it was really quite pointless exactly what started my little period of depression off, but at the time it just seemed like a black pit really. Well not sure how long the suicidal period went on for - a month or two at least, but the depression period where I just wanted to cry all the time - that lasted about half a year.
Reply 57
Ticki
As Alaric says, staying in bed is not a good way of coping. If your friend is sleeping longer or can't sleep at night so sleeps through the morning, maybe you could try knocking on their door in the morning to wake them up? It might sound silly, but at this time of year it could be Seasonally Affected Disorder (I think that's what it's called!) and more light and exercise could help your friend a bit. I guess that could help for anyone - I've just moved rooms and really appreciate the extra light in my new room.

Your college Welfare Officer should have some further information about this. If you don't want to contact them but want the information, PM me - my welfare folder is about 18 inches away from my computer and I'm happy to send it to you. It can be very, very hard to help someone with depression and there will probably be lots of times when you don't really know what to do, but being there is REALLY important. Especially in Cambridge it's really easy to get caught up in other things, but your friend will really appreciate the effort.

I'm very disappointed to see such a lack of sympathy from some of you. :frown: It doesn't really matter whether this is clinical depression or just a down phase, and whether there's a 'TSR approved' reason for it or not. The point is that someone's friend is going through a rough patch and needs some help! CUSU are running a Mental Health Week this term, maybe you should consider some of the events on offer.

Hope this helps, Camford!


Thanks Ticki. I've not been in this thread for the last few days. Talking to my friend instead. He's better now. Either he's got over it, for now, or he was simply miserable for a few days. He's doing physics in Oxford. His tutor doesn't do what our tutors do. He went to talk to the college chaplain twice. Although he said before hand that "I don't what to say to him". He should be ok now for the next couple of weeks at least.

A Mental Health Week? What are the events on offer? I want to go.
Reply 58
Camford
I'm asking this because my friend is depressed. What do you do when you are depressed? Do you lie in bed all day and hope it'll go away? Do you go to the doctors in hope that he/she may give you some happy pills? Or do you get on with work and not letting it bother you? Can I have some tips please?


This thread seems to have turned into a debate about how genuine peoples' depressions are.. I must admit I get frustrated by people who claim they're depressed and I feel it's just attention seeking. However, having experienced one very large depression (my own fault for playing with my brain chemicals) I now understand the irrational behaviour and I can sympathise with the view that there's no point in going on. Not like normal me at all! I love life! I love the sensation of breathing!

I have a friend who's had depression (yup, diagnosed and all) and she's tried like hell to pull herself out of it... when she's well enough she's great, and she really does try. But when she has a "crash" it's impossible for her to carry on like nothing's happening... During these crashes I (like all her close friends) just stand by her. I tell her I love her, and that we'll jam soon (she plays keys, I play sax) and I know that this support helps her.

Good luck with your friend, I hope s/he pulls through.
Reply 59
Camford
A Mental Health Week? What are the events on offer? I want to go.

Events haven't yet been confirmed, but here's the information I have at the moment. If you don't hear more about it in due course just let me know and I'll pass on the details. Glad to hear your friend's feeling happier! :smile:

This year Mental Health Awareness Week will be running from 14th-18th Feb, which also happens to fall around the start of 5th week. Events have yet to be confirmed, but hope to include showings of “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest”, and “A Beautiful Mind”, as well as talks and workshops by Young Minds and Studentsinmind. Sian Davies, Students with Disabilities Officer from NUS will also be visiting. CUSU also hopes to run some relaxation sessions with the University Counselling Service.

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