[sparklysparkles]

(Original post by PerigeeApogee)
However, what I can't stand is people who take degree subjects that aren't useful or relevant to modern life (which is fine, if that's what interests you), but deny that this is the case, deluding themselves (and attempting to delude me) into the notion that the study of Latin, or the study of Medieval Law, or the study of Fine Art is somehow as vital and relevant as the sciences, engineering, medicine, etc.

Hmm, as a student of current law (which is probably only slightly down the scale of vitality from medicine and engineering), I think that there is definite value in studying nearly any degree... fair enough a base-level study is somewhat irrelevant to modern life, but loss of knowledgeable people in any field is to the detriment of the human race as a whole - we've vast swathes of history and culture behind us that deserve to be taken note of and lessons learned from, and we cannot assume that those who have studied such subjects before us have derived all that can be derived from the source materials. In a sticks-and-stones mud-hut society, obviously medicine's going to be the most valuable knowledge base, but one hopes that we've moved on from merely trying to get by day to day.

Re. the degree certificates, the influence of Ancient Rome and Latin over the millennia has been huge, and a load of our words are derived from the language - and the words themselves are still used in the fields of law, medicine, and biology in particular. I think that the university is right to acknowledge that and take into account its history. Plus, it makes it feel that much more special. Having said that, I do think the translation should be made known to those who are curious (which I'd hope would be every student, though I suppose most are so glad to get their degree they don't really care )

[munn]

(Original post by PerigeeApogee)
What do you mean the 'level of the qualification'?

classification, whatever

cum laude is "with honour" yeah?
then it's magna cum laude for high honour and summa cum laude for highest honour.

to me that's a differing level of qualification, just as a first is a higher level than a 2.1 etc (in my eyes anyway)

[andyyy]

(Original post by PerigeeApogee)
However, what I can't stand is people who take degree subjects that aren't useful or relevant to modern life (which is fine, if that's what interests you), but deny that this is the case, deluding themselves (and attempting to delude me) into the notion that the study of Latin, or the study of Medieval Law, or the study of Fine Art is somehow as vital and relevant as the sciences, engineering, medicine, etc.

Hmm, 'useful or relevant to modern life' is a very interesting phrase. Useful or relevant to the modern life of whom, exactly? Yourself, somebody who thinks a science/engineering/medical degree is a sure path to financial security, students, linguists, historians, museum curators, politicians, us all as a society? Yes, some people get degrees which are in high demand under the delusion that this means that once they graduate they will have no problem finding a well paid job, others choose to do degrees which are not generally believed to lead to wealth because of a variety of reasons - they have a specific career in mind which requires a specific degree although outside this career path this degree is not in high demand, they already have a source of income and are doing a degree just for the fun of it, they simply trust in their skills and hard work enough to think that they'll manage to get a job even if they get a less popular degree, etc.

There's no such thing as an universally useful or universally useless degree because, for example, if you want to teach Classics, an engineering or chemistry degree is going to be absolutely and completely useless and irrelevant.

[munn]

(Original post by PerigeeApogee)
Hmm doesn't say that on mine.

Says cum honoribus primae classis - with honours of the first class.

I didn't mean on ours, I was referring to the US system.
Their actual degree classification is in Latin, a mathematics student might graduate with their degree a "B.Sc Mathematics Magna Cum Laude" as opposed to our "B.Sc Mathematics (Hons)"

Tradition and all that, Americans are even worse for it than us, but I know Edinburgh at least has Latin on the degree parchment, so it wouldn't surprise me if it's a trait followed by all of the UKs ancient universities

[ish90an]

(Original post by andyyy)
Even if we were to admit that Latin is not particularly relevant today (which isn't true, but I don't really want to go into that because it's such a pointless discussion), I don't see how a significant modernisation of education could be achieved by changing diplomas or graduation ceremonies which have been the same for hundreds of years. I can see how modernising infrastructure or curricula could help modernise education, but changing the diploma because you're too lazy to learn a bit of basic Latin (because the text is not grammatically or lexically complicated at all)? That has nothing to do with modernisation and everything to do with intellectual laziness. Most Continental European countries make the study of classical languages a mandatory part of an academic secondary education, it's a shame that doesn't happen in Britain anymore. Though, of course, they also make the study of two modern foreign languages mandatory and that's never going to happen in Britain either.

As someone who never studied Latin and has no interest in doing so, and as an international student, I find the whole idea of my degree parchment being in a dead and buried language that I never had to engage in through the course of my degree to be nothing more than pretentious garbage. The university teaches its courses in English, it requires its students to have a sufficient grasp of English, I really don't see why after 4 years of work I have to suddenly go to Google translate to read my own certificate.
As for this accusation that somehow not bothering to learn Latin just so you can read your certificate makes one lazy, I spent 4 years excelling in an actual subject that a) has some benefit beyond reading a bunch of old books and b) saw a lot of people drop out because they couldn't hack it. This idea that one needs to study a long lost language in the name of "tradition" is antiquated and ridiculous, language evolves, institutions need to evolve with them.

[Celtic_Anthony]

Unusually, I'm all a bit 'who cares?' about this particular argument.

Although us law types do like our tradition, and we do still need to know certain Latin phrases lest one of our cases is deserted simpliciter and we don't really know what that means.

[Steverockin]

Does it really matter what your degree says and in what language? You have it and can prove you have it to employers. Seems a few folk on TSR argue about the most boring of topics...

[Steverockin]

(Original post by PerigeeApogee)
Yes, actually, it does matter to me.

I worked for 4 long, hard years to achieve that certificate, and I'd quite like to be able to read it and display it in such a way that others can easily read it, without having to resort to the nonsense pigeon-English translation given to us by Google.

And it annoys me in particular because I came from a very humble background, and all my friends who never went through higher education will look at my diploma and get the impression that University is all about becoming a pretentious and obtuse ****, rather than being about 4 years of hard, rational work.

First of all congratulations on achieving your degree - that's commendable regardless of anything else.

I can understand your desire to read it because it must be something you're immensely proud of.

I am unsure about one thing: You say that you're from a humble background and that your friends will think you're a 'pretentious' guy. I would argue that for someone (you) to want their degree in English for the purpose to show it off, would only fortify their opinions of people with a degree.

[G8D]

Latin on your degree makes you a posh **** who didn't work for his grade?

[Spider Pig]

(Original post by PerigeeApogee)
Having Latin on your degree makes you part of a University culture where the end goal is to have your head as far up your own arse as possible.

What other reason is there for it? Despite all of the lame attempts on this forum, I can't see a logical reason for it.

Surely it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks, so long as your head isn't actually as far up your own arse as possible? People aren't going to judge you based on the language/wording of your certificate unless you match the pretentiousness of the Latin with your personality, and if they do surely they aren't worth your time anyway?

[munn]

It doesn't bother me at all, I like the touch of tradition to be honest, if we're decrying pointless traditions for the sake of pointless traditions we might as well just have our degrees printed on card or something rather than goatskin

[Steverockin]

This is a bit gay, and way off topic but can you guys please check this out? Much appreciated!

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=1716777

[greeneyedgirl]

(Original post by Steverockin)
This is a bit gay, and way off topic but can you guys please check this out? Much appreciated!

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=1716777

You should play at the acoustic nights at QMU

[Steverockin]

(Original post by greeneyedgirl)
You should play at the acoustic nights at QMU

I think i might but i dont know if im good enough..

[greeneyedgirl]

(Original post by Steverockin)
I think i might but i dont know if im good enough..

I'll clap loudly for you

[Aurora.]

(Original post by PerigeeApogee)
Having Latin on your degree makes you part of a University culture where the end goal is to have your head as far up your own arse as possible.

What other reason is there for it? Despite all of the lame attempts on this forum, I can't see a logical reason for it.

There isn't a logical reason... It's a tradition you don't have to think too far into.

Gawd, the places this thread has gone since I accidentally unwatched it

[Aurora.]

(Original post by PerigeeApogee)
If there's no logical reason for it then why should I be chastised for not wishing to engage with it?

If there's no logical reason, why isn't it optional?

Because it's just the way it is, even though you obviously regret it now you chose to go to Glasgow Uni. If you didn't expect tradition you're not as smart as you look.

[ish90an]

(Original post by Aurora.)
Because it's just the way it is, even though you obviously regret it now you chose to go to Glasgow Uni. If you didn't expect tradition you're not as smart as you look.

So instead of the university moving ahead with the times, students who do not like pompous antiquated nonsense should go elsewhere. I see you are all for progressing into the future.

[Aurora.]

(Original post by ish90an)
So instead of the university moving ahead with the times, students who do not like pompous antiquated nonsense should go elsewhere. I see you are all for progressing into the future.

I believe in progression, and in tradition. Traditions don't bother me as long as they're not hurting anyone. I don't know. I just think if you looked into the university before you went there, you'd be hard pushed to miss its obsession with the traditional, and if something about the university annoys you as much as this obviously annoys PerigeeApogee, you should possibly think about not going there.

[Celtic_Anthony]

Will somebody, please, think of the goats?