Being a health and soical care student I can say I allready have a firm understanding of care and to be honest I dont think going to uni to study nursing would be very fun at all.Placement + job + work most of which till atleast the 2nd year I will have allready written, rewriteing essays is not fun.
No thanks im gonna go to do a diploma in nursing later on in my life if I still like the idear of nursing.To me a degree in nursing is for all you six formers.Im not saying a nursing degree is worthless or stupid, no infact it says alot of good things about a person not only that but it allso holds alot of academic weight as well.Im going to do a foundation year in science and do a health based science degree , because I want to experence student life to its full. lets face it, a science degree has alot more options for me personally as I think a Btec national in health and soical care is pretty respectable in itself , and someone who holds a dinsiction in that will have gasped a detailed understanding of the care value base , equality , inviduality etc .
So my point to this post is , is nursing getting too academic?What are your thoughts?Personally I think there needs to be better ways into nursing,because there are select people , that find it too hard to break through.
Well I have attended the funerals of two aunts this year and to be brutally honest the care they both received from the nhs was completely shoddy. It seems as though it is more important to empty their beds than it is to actually check that the care they are receiving is adequate and suitable for their needs.
I know of an example of this shoddy attitude by nurses. While my aunt was in hospital one of her fellow patients, a diabetic, had missed the meals that day because she was having various tests done. As a result of ths she asked a nurse if he could get her some toast or something to eat. He replied that he hadn't trained for three years to make toast! He obviously hadn't trained for three years to understand that a diabetic needs to eat, nor to realise that you can use a telephone to call catering and ask for a meal for a patient. As a result of his neglect that patient had a hypo during the night.
I can also give examples of nurses who are too busy to take patients to the toilet or to bring them a bedpan when required. In fact, on one ward I was accused by a nurse of being demanding because I said mrs so and so has asked if she can have a bedpan. I wasn't demanding anything, simply informing a nurse that a patient needed her!
Are nursing courses too academic or are the wrong type of people choosing to do nursing because they think that it is something different to what it actually is?
I think its the wrong people nowdays. Your obviously making an assumption now, there are current exceptions I just think its "modern" nurses. My aunt is a nurse and does a damn goodjob of it. However, one of my friends wants to be a nurse. He has a major superiority ideal about himself despte that fact that his AS grades where DEUU. He originally wanted to do medicine.. haha
..So when he realized that he could be a doctor, im guessing he decided he wanted to still have some prestige in his career choice, and knowing that he wouldnt make it in industry or research in either chem or biology, why not do a nursing degree??
I think the majority of people who decide to do it are not suitable applicants. thats where the problem lies, not the course; they do it for the uniform not the desire to care for people (same could be said for a lot of career choices now)..
Are nursing courses too academic or are the wrong type of people choosing to do nursing because they think that it is something different to what it actually is?
That's awful and there are so many stories like that.
My mum seen a old man wanting help to get out of his chair and back in to bed and nobody helped him, when he asked and he got fed up of waiting so he got up himself and feel on the floor and my mum and dad, who was an very ill patient, had to pick him up.
My mum's boyfriend is currently in hospital now and the other day he need the toilet, but he needed assistance getting there and asked for it. After an hour of waiting he made his own way, and then needed help while in there, called the emergency cord and it was broken and was left there for the next couple of hours waiting and calling for help. Did they not notice a patient was missing and that the toliet was occupied constanly? Also the central heating was broken and there was no hot water.
I think maybe they are a bit too academic, but maybe more the wrong people are doing them.
When i do my nursing course, if i decide to apply next year, i know i will make a good nurse because i actually care and maybe this time round people will be able to see that now that i'm getting more experience.
Leave the academic stuff to the doctors I say, nurses need to be caring and good with the hospital equipment.
that is true need to remeber theres allways room for nursing practitioners , we need academic nurses , i just think there needs to be less emphesis on it
I think the push to more academic healthcare routes comes from the need for continued professional development - at least, I get the impression that's a big part of it for radiotherapy.
I think the push to more academic healthcare routes comes from the need for continued professional development - at least, I get the impression that's a big part of it for radiotherapy.
Exactly, radiotherapy buddy.
Nursing isn't too academic at all. Theres a good reason you have 50% of the time on placement - that's the time you pick up your clinical skills.
I can't believe some of the comments on here. J-E-N-O-V-A your comment about doctors being the ones with the knowledge is absolutely ridiculous, and typical of someone who has never worked in healthcare.
I can't even begin to argue the case that I want to because its so expansive it could take me hours.
In summary though - it's nothing to do with the course being too academic, it's to do with the people applying.
Hm. Nurses are an integral part of the multidiscplinary team. A lot of time they do have to use equipments to monitor patients' blood pressure and stuff so their schedule does tend to be quite busy. You can't blame them for that... but... I guess it's all about a compromise between empathy and egocentrics.
For me, the best nurses are those that can empathize with patients by meeting their demands, even if it means sacrificing their own time.
I actually wanna do nursing because of the social contact they get to have with patients but personally I wouldn't find it a reputable career compared to a doctor.
Hm. Nurses are an integral part of the multidiscplinary team. A lot of time they do have to use equipments to monitor patients' blood pressure and stuff so their schedule does tend to be quite busy. You can't blame them for that... but... I guess it's all about a compromise between empathy and egocentrics.
For me, the best nurses are those that can empathize with patients by meeting their demands, even if it means sacrificing their own time.
I actually wanna do nursing because of the social contact they get to have with patients but personally I wouldn't find it a reputable career compared to a doctor.
I agree. In fact graduate nurses hold a seniority advantage over nurses without degrees. As Catchetat has explicitly stated, nurses form an integral part of the multidisciplinary team. We simply cannot do without nurses - who in certain regards, accomplish professional tasks which doctors cannot. In a recently published article, the NHS have stated a preference for graduate nurses due to their beneficial level of academia combined with experience. In essence, graduate nurses are more efficiently taught and prepared than prospective nurses without degrees.
By the way, my name is Robert. Nice to meet you Simon.
I"m hoping this thread isnt going to turn into a debate about how crap our nurses are!.I did a years training, but had to drop out due to personal issues, and I can honestly say that most people have absolutely no idea just how hard nurses work. Nursing has become more academic over the years, but that doesnt mean that the nurses without the degree / diploma are any less competent. Nurses are without question a very central part of the MDT, they are the ones that have the direct patient contact on a daily basis.
I agree. In fact graduate nurses hold a seniority advantage over nurses without degrees. As Catchetat has explicitly stated, nurses form an integral part of the multidisciplinary team. We simply cannot do without nurses - who in certain regards, accomplish professional tasks which doctors cannot. In a recently published article, the NHS have stated a preference for graduate nurses due to their beneficial level of academia combined with experience. In essence, graduate nurses are more efficiently taught and prepared than prospective nurses without degrees.
By the way, my name is Robert. Nice to meet you Simon.
Wow! I would have assumed you to be a female by the looks of your avatar and your name lol. In addition to what you said, nurse shortage boost death rates.
In HK, RNs have a greater flexibility than ENs in terms of decision-makings and other aspects. What's a nursing career like in UK?
I"m hoping this thread isnt going to turn into a debate about how crap our nurses are!.I did a years training, but had to drop out due to personal issues, and I can honestly say that most people have absolutely no idea just how hard nurses work. Nursing has become more academic over the years, but that doesnt mean that the nurses without the degree / diploma are any less competent. Nurses are without question a very central part of the MDT, they are the ones that have the direct patient contact on a daily basis.
Sorry if I offended you. I fully respect each and every medic, especially nurses who handle one of the most important jobs in society.
Sorry if I offended you. I fully respect each and every medic, especially nurses who handle one of the most important jobs in society.
No you didnt offend me at all. Its just that nurses usually get bad press, something which I dont think is fair. Not saying you did give them bad press, just generalising.
Every profession is going to get it's share of bad press, that's just how we are. People like disasters when they aren't involved - that's why soaps can get away with turning all their characters into adulterers. Even when we see good examples of a profession we tend to think "How nice!" then forget about it, unless it is way above and beyond the call of duty, or should I say our idea of duty. Health professionals have a lot of paperwork to do these days, but unfortunately anyone who is receiving care from them (or their relatives) don't see that as part of their duty. The fact is that however many nurses are doing a good job, they will always be overshadowed by the ones who aren't.
I feel that being a more academic course is not itself a bad thing, as long as you are still impressing the importance of the actual job - caring for people. Paperwork does not constitute care in my book, it's bureaucracy, albeit necessary to maintain high standards of care. The problem with it being an academic course means that some people may think it is an academic job, and it may also prevent people who would be very good at the job from applying or being accepted.
I really hope this doesn't turn into a debate about how bad nurses and the NHS are. Personally from working within hospitals and being a patient the only staff i've been disappointed in is agency nurses and health care assistants, NOT qualified, graduated nurses.
The academic course is a good thing, now nurses have much more responsibility and ability to furthur there career, for example nurse administrators. To reach this a good academic degree and possibily post-graduate training and specialising is needed. Personally i don't want to be stuck as a staff nurse all my life, hence why a degree is needed. On top of this, a diploma although you get more money..it holds you back, and you don't learn nearly enough of the basic science.
I personally think degrees should be done, the anatomy and physiology modules are so important, and build on a-level biology and chemistry, something that someone holding a simple btec in health and social care will miss out on and find hard to catch up
I really hope this doesn't turn into a debate about how bad nurses and the NHS are. Personally from working within hospitals and being a patient the only staff i've been disappointed in is agency nurses and health care assistants, NOT qualified, graduated nurses.
The academic course is a good thing, now nurses have much more responsibility and ability to furthur there career, for example nurse administrators. To reach this a good academic degree and possibily post-graduate training and specialising is needed. Personally i don't want to be stuck as a staff nurse all my life, hence why a degree is needed. On top of this, a diploma although you get more money..it holds you back, and you don't learn nearly enough of the basic science.
I personally think degrees should be done, the anatomy and physiology modules are so important, and build on a-level biology and chemistry, something that someone holding a simple btec in health and social care will miss out on and find hard to catch up
I really hope this doesn't turn into a debate about how bad nurses and the NHS are. Personally from working within hospitals and being a patient the only staff i've been disappointed in is agency nurses and health care assistants, NOT qualified, graduated nurses.
The academic course is a good thing, now nurses have much more responsibility and ability to furthur there career, for example nurse administrators. To reach this a good academic degree and possibily post-graduate training and specialising is needed. Personally i don't want to be stuck as a staff nurse all my life, hence why a degree is needed. On top of this, a diploma although you get more money..it holds you back, and you don't learn nearly enough of the basic science.
I personally think degrees should be done, the anatomy and physiology modules are so important, and build on a-level biology and chemistry, something that someone holding a simple btec in health and social care will miss out on and find hard to catch up
You have completely missed the point. In the rush to create a profession with a career structure, nurses appear to have lost sight of the fact that nursing is essentially a bedside based career. And that the care of the patient is intrinsic to being a nurse. You can't be a nurse and sit in an office and never lay hands on a patient. If your ambitions lie in shuffling bits of paper and being an administrator then do a business studies degree.
I watched as an MDT discussed the disposal of my aunt to some kind of residential care, while the family sat with her and realised that she was dying and would never ever get into a nursing home. It was a completely pointless exercise and if the nursing staff and medical staff and OT's etc had actually opened their eyes and looked at her as a human being, they would have seen what the family could see, and would have concentrated on making her death as comfortable and caring as possible.
You have completely missed the point. In the rush to create a profession with a career structure, nurses appear to have lost sight of the fact that nursing is essentially a bedside based career. And that the care of the patient is intrinsic to being a nurse. You can't be a nurse and sit in an office and never lay hands on a patient. If your ambitions lie in shuffling bits of paper and being an administrator then do a business studies degree.
I watched as an MDT discussed the disposal of my aunt to some kind of residential care, while the family sat with her and realised that she was dying and would never ever get into a nursing home. It was a completely pointless exercise and if the nursing staff and medical staff and OT's etc had actually opened their eyes and looked at her as a human being, they would have seen what the family could see, and would have concentrated on making her death as comfortable and caring as possible.
But the professions are evolving - responsibility doesn't just mean paperwork. Again I have to use radiography as en example since it's my experience, but now radiographers who qualify to do so are able to report on the diagnostic scans, meaning a doctor doesn't have to. Continued professional development. I guess the nursing example is the increase in nurse practitioners now? It all makes things a lot more streamlined to have the staff who are capable of further education after qualification.
Of course, I see what you're saying - people qualify and see the whole thing as purely academic. That's wrong. It's a balanced profession, any healthcare profession is these days (it's part of the appeal to me to challenge myself academically and apply knowledge on a day to day basis, whilst actually working with and helping people), and those that go into it purely for the academia well.. shouldn't be! They should be filtered out in the system... at acceptance stage or on clinical practice even. It's shocking that people end up in healthcare roles without the capacity to even want to work with people or see them as people at all!
University course discussion for physiotherapy, occupational therapy and nursing etc.
Useful Resources:
Why im not doing a nursing degree
