Musicals are for children
Anything and everything that's live and entertaining. Including stand up comedians, theatre performances, gigs, festivals and concerts (and magic shows).
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Re: Musicals are for childrenFine. It's overrated drivel since it's predictable, boring and childish. Oh, and every swinging dick on the planet seems to worship it, and most things that have universal acclamation are generally disappointments, and this one fits that rule, along with Princess Diana and the Mighty Boosh.(Original post by DanielWhit)
Nice to see a reasoned argument there.
All of this is, of course, my humble opinion and you are more than free to disagree with me.Last edited by Democracy; 13-11-2008 at 01:20. -
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Re: Musicals are for childrenThis is a silly analytic tactic in debate. Didn't we outgrow positivism like 100 years ago?(Original post by Acaila)
Define "culturally stunted"
No, not by accident, but given how many Oscars Titanic received, I'd hardly use that as a measure of cultural value, or, in fact, the quality of the cultural engagement of the viewer.(Original post by Drewski)
And the 10 Oscars awarded to West Side Story were an accident, too?
MB -
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Re: Musicals are for childrenYes, the height of Gesamtkunstwerk!(Original post by DanielWhit)
I wouldn't call myself "stupid", and would like to express that musicals are a very good combination of several different art forms if performed and constructed well (those are acting, dancing, singing along with creativity).
MB -
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Re: Musicals are for childrenMusicals are for anyone that enjoys them.
I doubt very many people take them seriously, anyway. At least, not the 'fun' ones.
Personally, I quite like dark musicals. Just because song is employed, doesn't make it childish. Music can have a very profound effect -
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Re: Musicals are for childrenIt's very much about the nature of the engagement with it. I mean I have no problem with them existing, just as I have no problem with Channel 5 existing. It's more the issue of them being taken seriously, as works of art, or a something we should waste our time discussing.(Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
Ouch
Seriously, could you elaborate? I seem to have missed whatever has prompted this reaction. Is it musicals themselves or just people's reactions to it?
MB -
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Re: Musicals are for childrenNot really. I'd say a lot of working class people are "culturally stunted" through reasons not within their control. I.E financial, geographical and social. But this is a completely different debate so I don't want to delve further into that here.(Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
That's a strong accusation to make
I've always looked at a lot of musicals as a bit of fun, rather than a truly cultural performance. I'm inclined to agree with the OP, if the word children was indeed changed to culturally stunted.Last edited by Indievertigo; 13-11-2008 at 01:30. -
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Re: Musicals are for childrenAnd that was a silly attempt at evasion when called on an unsubstantiated vague claim. I think it's quite important to define what we are debating before we go off on one.(Original post by musicbloke)
This is a silly analytic tactic in debate. Didn't we outgrow positivism like 100 years ago?
No, not by accident, but given how many Oscars Titanic received, I'd hardly use that as a measure of cultural value, or, in fact, the quality of the cultural engagement of the viewer.
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Re: Musicals are for childrenMusical examples from musicals please, that can have a profound effect. I bet I can provide 20 examples from serious music, for adults, that out-do any one of yours, and show your tastes to be both nondescript and childish.(Original post by Schmokie Dragon)
Music can have a very profound effect
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Re: Musicals are for childrenIf Bartes found adverts for soap worth analysing, who are you to suggest we can't study shows like Hair?(Original post by musicbloke)
It's very much about the nature of the engagement with it. I mean I have no problem with them existing, just as I have no problem with Channel 5 existing. It's more the issue of them being taken seriously, as works of art, or a something we should waste our time discussing.
MB
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Re: Musicals are for childrenOk, what I mean by culturally stunted is a disengagement from art, from critique, and from an ability to engage with society. A belief in the importance of things that are by their very nature (i.e. on both a mimetic and a formal level) underdeveloped and lacking in any aesthetic or intellectual value. The belief that pleasure is a reasonable end in itself with a disregard for history or the true complexity of subjectivity. Ascribing value to objects outside of a critical discourse. Comprendez?(Original post by Acaila)
And that was a silly attempt at evasion when called on an unsubstantiated vague claim. I think it's quite important to define what we are debating before we go off on one.
MB -
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Re: Musicals are for childrenWell I do think they are worth discussing (am undecided about to what extent they could be viewed as works of art). I personally wouldn't talk about it in the same way that I would talk about classical music though (I'm assuming this is what has irritated you?)(Original post by musicbloke)
It's very much about the nature of the engagement with it. I mean I have no problem with them existing, just as I have no problem with Channel 5 existing. It's more the issue of them being taken seriously, as works of art, or a something we should waste our time discussing.
MB
Perhaps once a full debate has been had and a summary needs to be made, there could be less of the stupid though?
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Re: Musicals are for childrenYes, and Adorno found use in analysing a horoscope column. This doesn't mean that these objects aren't for the culturally stunted.(Original post by Acaila)
If Bartes found adverts for soap worth analysing, who are you to suggest we can't study shows like Hair?
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Re: Musicals are for childrenI personally think stupidity has a large part to play in this discussion.(Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
Well I do think they are worth discussing (am undecided about to what extent they could be viewed as works of art). I personally wouldn't talk about it in the same way that I would talk about classical music though (I'm assuming this is what has irritated you?)
Perhaps once a full debate has been had and a summary needs to be made, there could be less of the stupid though?
MB -
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Re: Musicals are for childrenHardly. Music is interpreted individually, that's part of the magic of it. Just because it doesn't have a profound effect on you doesn't mean it won't have a profound effect on someone else. I remember watching an orchestra play Autumn from the four seasons. Someone in front of me was crying, the person sitting to my left was smiling serenely, and I was appreciating.(Original post by musicbloke)
Musical examples from musicals please, that can have a profound effect. I bet I can provide 20 examples from serious music, for adults, that out-do any one of yours, and show your tastes to be both nondescript and childish.
MB -
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Re: Musicals are for childrenSorry, I phrased that badly. I was saying that's it's a strong accusation to make against MB, rather than it being a strong accusation against the working class(Original post by Indievertigo)
Not really. I'd say a lot of working class people are "culturally stunted" through reasons not within their control. I.E financial, geographical and social. But this is a completely different debate so I don't want to delve further into that here.
I've always looked at a lot of musicals as a bit of fun, rather than a truly cultural performance. I'm inclined to agree with the OP, if the word children was indeed changed to culturally stunted.
