[Quady]

(Original post by Llamageddon)
i like how you answered your own question

Which question?

And no I'm not drunk, just tired at 1:20am

[Llamageddon]

(Original post by Quady)
Which question?

And no I'm not drunk, just tired at 1:20am

omg scroll up ppl

[roots]

(Original post by Quady)
I'd been meaning to follow this thread, having brushed with the atom thing recently.

First one I opened:

Glorify the Name of your Lord, the Most High: He Who created and moulded; He Who determined and guided; He Who brings forth green pasture, then makes it blackened stubble. (Qur'an, 87:1-5)

Sounds like a forrest that caught fire to me.

Quran 87: 1-5
Glorify the name of thy Guardian-Lord Most High,
Who hath created, and further, given order and proportion;
Who hath ordained laws. And granted guidance;
And Who bringeth out the (green and luscious) pasture,
And then doth make it (but) swarthy stubble.

Try to understand!

[Quady]

(Original post by Llamageddon)
i like how you answered your own question

Huh, my question was 'why is it not random'

Apparently the answer is 'because evolution doesn't give a perfect endpoint'

I'm confused (and tired) about how something that doesn't move forward as such isn't random?

If I flip a coin, heads I get to flip again, tails I lose the coin.
After 1,000,000 iterations I still have a coin, it doesn't mean that wasn't random.

[AWZC]

(Original post by roots)
Quran 87: 1-5
Glorify the name of thy Guardian-Lord Most High,
Who hath created, and further, given order and proportion;
Who hath ordained laws. And granted guidance;
And Who bringeth out the (green and luscious) pasture,
And then doth make it (but) swarthy stubble.

Try to understand!

I'm sorry, I won't accept a holy book as evidence of a belief. Otherwise I will start using New Scientists as evidence of my beliefs.

[roots]

(Original post by AWZC)
I'm sorry, I won't accept a holy book as evidence of a belief. Otherwise I will start using New Scientists as evidence of my beliefs.

Youre drunk, we can talk tomorrow if you want science and evidence to be evidence for something to believe in

[Quady]

(Original post by roots)
Quran 87: 1-5
Glorify the name of thy Guardian-Lord Most High,
Who hath created, and further, given order and proportion;
Who hath ordained laws. And granted guidance;
And Who bringeth out the (green and luscious) pasture,
And then doth make it (but) swarthy stubble.

Try to understand!

It doesn't sound like petrol to me...
(sorry everyone, that earlier post was refering to the production of petrol apparently)

right definitly night night time

[Quady]

(Original post by roots)
Youre drunk, we can talk tomorrow if you want science and evidence to be evidence something you believe in

Why is everyone drunk?
Not just tired? Although admittedly there are some similarities.

[Llamageddon]

(Original post by Quady)
Huh, my question was 'why is it not random'

Apparently the answer is 'because evolution doesn't give a perfect endpoint'

i take it you forgot the "that prosper in an environment" bit through honest reasons cos rly that's so clearly the important bit
characteristics that prosper in environments are not random lol it's not random for wings to help you fly better than legs think about this one

If I flip a coin, heads I get to flip again, tails I lose the coin.
After 1,000,000 iterations I still have a coin, it doesn't mean that wasn't random.

if you have a race against people with 1 leg and you win every time and the loser at the end of the competition always get shot but you always win ye that's random

[roots]

Yes Quady, you tried fooling me! Very good

You posted:

Glorify the Name of your Lord, the Most High: He Who created and moulded; He Who determined and guided; He Who brings forth green pasture, then makes it blackened stubble. (Qur'an, 87:1-5)

Sounds like a forrest that caught fire to me.

I posted:

Quran 87: 1-5
Glorify the name of thy Guardian-Lord Most High,
Who hath created, and further, given order and proportion;
Who hath ordained laws. And granted guidance;
And Who bringeth out the (green and luscious) pasture,
And then doth make it (but) swarthy stubble.

Try to understand!

You replied:

It doesn't sound like petrol to me...
(sorry everyone, that earlier post was refering to the production of petrol apparently)

right definitly night night time

The source is:

Glorify the Name of your Lord, the Most High: He Who created and moulded; He Who determined and guided; He Who brings forth green pasture, then makes it blackened stubble. (Qur'an, 87:1-5)

As we know, petrol forms from the remains of plants and animals in the sea. Once these have decayed on the sea bed after millions of years, all that is left are oily substances. These, under layers of mud and rock, then turn into petrol and gas. Movements in the Earth's crust sometimes lead to the sea petrifying and to the rocks containing petrol being buried thousands of metres deep. The petrol that forms sometimes leaks through the pores in the rock layers from several kilometres down, and rises to the surface, where it vaporises (turns into gas), leaving a mass of bitumen behind.

The three elements identified in the first four verses of Surat al-A'la parallel the formation of petroleum. It is quite likely that the term "almaraa," meaning pasture or meadow, refers to the organically-based substances in the formation of petroleum. The second word of note in the verse is "ahwa," used to describe blackish-green, greenish-black, dark or sooty colours. This word can be thought of as describing the waste plant matter accumulated underground gradually turning black, since these words are supported by a third word, "ghuthaan." The word "ghuthaan" translated as stubble, can also mean flood-water plants, plants brought together by waste matter being collected and dispersed around valleys, rubbish, leaves or foam. In addition to the connotation of "vomiting out" implied in the word, it may also be translated as "to flood forth vomited matter," and describes the way that the earth "vomits" forth petroleum. In fact, in the light of the formation of petroleum, the way it emerges, its foam-like appearance and its colour, one can better see with what wisdom were employed the words in the verses.

As has been discussed, the plant in the verse turning into a dark and viscous liquid bears a strong resemblance to the formation of petroleum. The description of such a formation over many years, at a time when the formation of petroleum was unknown, is without doubt another proof that the Qur'an is the revelation of Allah.

You forgot to post:

2- The complex language of Arabic:

Arabic is a very complex, artistic and poetical language by nature! A single word can mean a host of meanings. The art and beauty of Arabic comes in how a person constructs and puts together words to form a sentence or paragraph. The art and creativity in the style and poetry are what determine the strength and beauty of the sentence or poem. That is why the Noble Quran is extremely difficult to understand sometimes, even by the fluent and professional Arabic speakers. That is why Muslims always say that the translations of the Noble Quran do it absolutely no justice, because the poetry and complexity of language-art are completely compromised in the translation. What the English reader, for instance, is left with when reading the English Noble Quran, is the subject that the Noble Verses are talking about. But he/she doesn't see the beautiful and complex stylistic and linguistic Divine Miracle that the Arabic text carries in it.

At any rate, Allah Almighty Chose for the Noble Quran to be Difficult to comprehend, and to be quite a challenge to interpret and translate, because:

1- He Chose to have the Miracle of the Noble Quran be an ever lasting one by living in the text of the Holy Book Itself.

2- To demonstrate Its Divinity to the Arabs back then, who were very experienced/mature, fluent and also addicted to poetry, along with the Arabic-speaking people today, and to challenge them and to show them that certainly the Noble Quran is not just an average everyday book. It is indeed a Divine Miracle, proving that Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, is indeed a Truthful and real Prophet.

3- This is Allah Almighty's way to Lead to the Right Path whom He pleases and to Lead astray whom He pleases.

Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, said the following Hadith (saying):
Narrated Abu Huraira: "I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "I have been sent with Jawami al-Kalim (i.e., the shortest expression carrying the widest meanings), and I was made victorious with awe (caste into the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the earth were brought to me and were put in my hand." Muhammad said, Jawami'-al-Kalim means that Allah expresses in one or two statements or thereabouts the numerous matters that used to be written in the books revealed before (the coming of) the Prophet. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Interpretation of Dreams, Volume 9, Book 87, Number 141)"

Didnt you say you werent drunk

Nice try

Sources:

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_31.html
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=745154

[Llamageddon]

screams of tl;dr tbh

[roots]

Why is that, because another plot was uncovered

[AWZC]

(Original post by roots)
Youre drunk, we can talk tomorrow if you want science and evidence to be evidence for something to believe in

Yes I'm slightly drunk, but that doesn't stop the fact that a collection of fantastical Abrahamic texts from some fanatical tribes is not to be considered historical, let alone definitive over arching evidence of the meaning of life, the universe and everything, to anyone looking at this from a remotely neutral position. The point I was making wasn't that my New Scientists are definitive, rather that your Qu'ran quotes have no bearing on an argument, as it has the same (less in many, including mine, opinions) bearing and importance.

[roots]

but that doesn't stop the fact that a collection of fantastical Abrahamic texts from some fanatical tribes is not to be considered historical

What must evolution be?

So you admit the existence of a man called Abraham (as)

let alone definitive over arching evidence of the meaning of life,

How about established scientific evidence supporting the Day Of Judgement

the universe and everything,

Its all included, including the end of time

to anyone looking at this from a remotely neutral position.

Youd be scared!

The point I was making wasn't that my New Scientists are definitive,

If you want them to be yes

rather that your Qu'ran quotes have no bearing on an argument,

You clearly havent looked into the History of the Quran and how it is totally impossible for it to be the work of a human

as it has the same (less in many, including mine, opinions) bearing and importance


Yes science is good, Islam is not against science, it strengthens my faith, it doesnt strengthen yours because you have no faith for it to strengthen just a vacuum for it to try to fill and i say that in all honesty hoping God willing that you see sense

Science without religion is lame..............

[Stony Steve Lemon]

(Original post by roots)
How about established scientific evidence supporting the Day Of Judgement

Like what?

[roots]

Unconfirmed Science of Things To Come

The fire before the last hour -

http://www.55a.net/firas/english/?page=show_det&id=358

The fate of the moon in the Holy Quran and science

http://www.55a.net/firas/english/?pa...&select_page=3

Surah Qiyamah
6. He asks: "When will be this Day of Resurrection?"
7. So, when the sight shall be dazed,
8. And the moon will be eclipsed,
9. And the sun and moon will be joined together

The link above beyond doubt answers any remaining doubts you might have

[Stony Steve Lemon]

(Original post by roots)
Unconfirmed Science of Things To Come

The fire before the last hour -

http://www.55a.net/firas/english/?page=show_det&id=358

The fate of the moon in the Holy Quran and science

http://www.55a.net/firas/english/?pa...&select_page=3

Surah Qiyamah
6. He asks: "When will be this Day of Resurrection?"
7. So, when the sight shall be dazed,
8. And the moon will be eclipsed,
9. And the sun and moon will be joined together

The link above beyond doubt answers any remaining doubts you might have

With regards to the volcano signifying the last days - I'm not familiar with Islamic end times prophecy, but is the volcano erupting a warning that the end is coming, or does the volcano actually set the end in motion?

As for the moon article, I couldn't find it on the page you linked me to, but I'm looking for it right now.

[AWZC]

(Original post by roots)
but that doesn't stop the fact that a collection of fantastical Abrahamic texts from some fanatical tribes is not to be considered historical

What must evolution be?

1)So you admit the existence of a man called Abraham (as)

let alone definitive over arching evidence of the meaning of life,

2)How about established scientific evidence supporting the Day Of Judgement

the universe and everything,

3)Its all included, including the end of time

to anyone looking at this from a remotely neutral position.

4) Youd be scared!

The point I was making wasn't that my New Scientists are definitive,

5) If you want them to be yes

rather that your Qu'ran quotes have no bearing on an argument,

6) You clearly havent looked into the History of the Quran and how it is totally impossible for it to be the work of a human

as it has the same (less in many, including mine, opinions) bearing and importance


7)Yes science is good, Islam is not against science, it strengthens my faith, it doesnt strengthen yours because you have no faith for it to strengthen just a vacuum for it to try to fill and i say that in all honesty hoping God willing that you see sense

Science without religion is lame..............

1) No - Abrahamic is a term based on the Jewish, Islamic and Christianic texts due to all three religions maintaining the existence of this man. It is similar to the Iliand and Oddesey being called Homeric texts by scholars despite the now commonly accepted view that there was no one man named Homer.

2) There is none. Please, provide links to any "scientific" argument.

3) Its also included in the Voluspo (the ancient Nordic mythical religious text concerning the Viking belief that the meaning of life was a constant struggle against the evil giants and the end of the world will be brought about by Giants). Does that mean its true, if its included?

4) I know I'm not neutral. Its practically impossible to be for this. However, in any argument a truly neutral person would probe both arguments, so you and I are sharing this role, probing each others views.

5) Thats the thing. Things can't be definitive just because you want them to be. Otherwise I would want Harry Potter to be true and become a kick ass Wizard...

6) Again, sources? And don't quote te whole science thing - hell, a human can easily write that science stuff now...

7) Actually i used to be pretty damn religious. Science was what persuaded me otherwise.

[roots]

(Original post by Stony Steve Lemon)
With regards to the volcano signifying the last days - I'm not familiar with Islamic end times prophecy, but is the volcano erupting a warning that the end is coming, or does the volcano actually set the end in motion?

As for the moon article, I couldn't find it on the page you linked me to, but I'm looking for it right now.

It sets the end in motion, one of the final signs before the last hour

Here it is:
http://www.55a.net/firas/english/?id=244&page=show_det

The sun and the moon being joined together is to the best of my knowledge after the resurrection when the Sun will be bought very close to the Earth

Surah Qiyamah
6. He asks: "When will be this Day of Resurrection?"
7. So, when the sight shall be dazed,
8. And the moon will be eclipsed,
9. And the sun and moon will be joined together

"One day the Earth will be changed to a different Earth and so will be the Heavens and (men) will be marshalled forth before Allah the One the Irresistible." (14:48)

And Allah knows best

[PremierPotters]

Very interesting this debate is(especially the bits about judegement day) it's still not getting anywhere.