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The Evolution Thread

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    (Original post by SillyFencer)
    lol, no complaints, don't be so defensive. It was just a straight up question, which you answered.
    The 'defence' was largely aimed at roots, for having complained about some form of 'conspiracy'. :p:
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    (Original post by Melancholy)
    The 'defence' was largely aimed at roots, for having complained about some form of 'conspiracy'. :p:
    lol, fair enough
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    For the 8th time, why do humans have genes for making fully functional tails if we where not supposed to use them?

    ''Ants evolved from wasp-like ancestors in the mid-Cretaceous period between 110 and 130 million years ago and diversified after the rise of flowering plants. Today, more than 12,000 species are classified with upper estimates of about 14,000 species''

    Why would God make so many species indivdually?
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    This is an inappropriate place to have a thread on evolution, to think that there are a reasonable number of people who doubt evolution is a real insult to humanity. All this thread does is allow people like roots who simply don't understand the theory to spout nonsensical reasoning.

    (Original post by roots)
    ...
    I am really very interested to know whether this roots person is for real, or whether he just wants some attention. Could somebody please tell me?

    If you are for real, it seems that your misunderstanding of the theory manifests itself in two ways.

    Firstly you seem to think that if you quote the Koran enough people will believe you. Secondly, you often say things along the lines of, "I can't imagine how evolution occured, so it can't be true." It's a tough thing to understand but you can't just say it's rubbish because you can't get your head round it.
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    I am very interested in evolution and I have a serious question for someone to answer.

    How is it that one aspect of a species can evolve, when it seems to need a lot of things to evolve in tandem. If we take the eye for example, I struggle to work out how it can be beneficial to an animal to have light sensitive cells if it doesn't have nerves to take it to the brain.
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    In short, it is. Light spots exist on very primitive organisms (nematodes? I forget), which at least allow it to 'see' whether it is in light or shadow. There is a pretty clear progression from here to a mammalian eye with lens and focusing if you look along the phylogeny.

    The fact at first glance we see something which needs multiple things together to work (eyes, bacteria flagella, etc.) doesn't necessarily mean we have 'irreducible complexity. A complicated system can evolve over time and then remove the redundant elements, leaving a highly developed system which seems to require all its parts together. Observation of the eye, the complement system, or the bacterial flagella bear this out. These have all been, at one stage or another, poster objects for anti-evolutionists to suggest that evolutionary theory can't explain. They are, once again, mistaken.
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    This is an inappropriate place to have a thread on evolution, to think that there are a reasonable number of people who doubt evolution is a real insult to humanity.

    The insult to humanity is a belief in evolution, the insult is the indoctrination which some of you even being aware of it, hold on to out of arrogance and stubborness, you really are holding a badge and you criticise parts of the christian community

    All this thread does is allow people like roots who simply don't understand the theory to spout nonsensical reasoning.


    Didnt you say this before

    I am really very interested to know whether this roots person is for real, or whether he just wants some attention. Could somebody please tell me?


    Im real.

    No, im going to put the false evolution crap you spread in front of you constantly till you have nothing left to say.

    If you are for real, it seems that your misunderstanding of the theory manifests itself in two ways.


    It s not my understanding which lacks, im looking at your theories critically from many angles.

    Firstly you seem to think that if you quote the Koran enough people will believe you.

    I answered this didnt I? No at times i quote it along with my thoughts

    Secondly, you often say things along the lines of, "I can't imagine how evolution occured, so it can't be true.

    Its more than that dont lie to people or ignore whats in front of you

    It's a tough thing to understand but you can't just say it's rubbish because you can't get your head round it.

    None of you can actually understand it, i put it to you that i understand it better than most of you
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    (Original post by Charzhino)
    For the 8th time, why do humans have genes for making fully functional tails if we where not supposed to use them?

    ''Ants evolved from wasp-like ancestors in the mid-Cretaceous period between 110 and 130 million years ago and diversified after the rise of flowering plants. Today, more than 12,000 species are classified with upper estimates of about 14,000 species''

    Why would God make so many species indivdually?
    This is where you evolutionists embarrass yourselves

    1/ I told you that i wasnt going to answer
    2/ I told you that the explanation is their for you if you look

    But as usual im going to have to answer you kid
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    (Original post by ningasheep12345)
    I am very interested in evolution and I have a serious question for someone to answer.

    How is it that one aspect of a species can evolve, when it seems to need a lot of things to evolve in tandem. If we take the eye for example, I struggle to work out how it can be beneficial to an animal to have light sensitive cells if it doesn't have nerves to take it to the brain.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_eye
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    (Original post by Melancholy)
    The 'defence' was largely aimed at roots, for having complained about some form of 'conspiracy'. :p:
    I could just present the evidence couldnt I?
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    Because you have no answer
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    (Original post by roots)
    Quran 87: 1-5
    Glorify the name of thy Guardian-Lord Most High,
    Who hath created, and further, given order and proportion;
    Who hath ordained laws. And granted guidance;
    And Who bringeth out the (green and luscious) pasture,
    And then doth make it (but) swarthy stubble.

    Try to understand!
    Oil isn't anything like 'swarthy stubble'.
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    I ALREADY WENT THROUGH THIS BUT AS USUAL YOU DONT READ

    The source is:

    Glorify the Name of your Lord, the Most High: He Who created and moulded; He Who determined and guided; He Who brings forth green pasture, then makes it blackened stubble. (Qur'an, 87:1-5)

    As we know, petrol forms from the remains of plants and animals in the sea. Once these have decayed on the sea bed after millions of years, all that is left are oily substances. These, under layers of mud and rock, then turn into petrol and gas. Movements in the Earth's crust sometimes lead to the sea petrifying and to the rocks containing petrol being buried thousands of metres deep. The petrol that forms sometimes leaks through the pores in the rock layers from several kilometres down, and rises to the surface, where it vaporises (turns into gas), leaving a mass of bitumen behind.

    The three elements identified in the first four verses of Surat al-A'la parallel the formation of petroleum. It is quite likely that the term "almaraa," meaning pasture or meadow, refers to the organically-based substances in the formation of petroleum. The second word of note in the verse is "ahwa," used to describe blackish-green, greenish-black, dark or sooty colours. This word can be thought of as describing the waste plant matter accumulated underground gradually turning black, since these words are supported by a third word, "ghuthaan." The word "ghuthaan" translated as stubble, can also mean flood-water plants, plants brought together by waste matter being collected and dispersed around valleys, rubbish, leaves or foam. In addition to the connotation of "vomiting out" implied in the word, it may also be translated as "to flood forth vomited matter," and describes the way that the earth "vomits" forth petroleum. In fact, in the light of the formation of petroleum, the way it emerges, its foam-like appearance and its colour, one can better see with what wisdom were employed the words in the verses.

    As has been discussed, the plant in the verse turning into a dark and viscous liquid bears a strong resemblance to the formation of petroleum. The description of such a formation over many years, at a time when the formation of petroleum was unknown, is without doubt another proof that the Qur'an is the revelation of Allah.

    You forgot to post:

    2- The complex language of Arabic:

    Arabic is a very complex, artistic and poetical language by nature! A single word can mean a host of meanings. The art and beauty of Arabic comes in how a person constructs and puts together words to form a sentence or paragraph. The art and creativity in the style and poetry are what determine the strength and beauty of the sentence or poem. That is why the Noble Quran is extremely difficult to understand sometimes, even by the fluent and professional Arabic speakers. That is why Muslims always say that the translations of the Noble Quran do it absolutely no justice, because the poetry and complexity of language-art are completely compromised in the translation. What the English reader, for instance, is left with when reading the English Noble Quran, is the subject that the Noble Verses are talking about. But he/she doesn't see the beautiful and complex stylistic and linguistic Divine Miracle that the Arabic text carries in it.

    At any rate, Allah Almighty Chose for the Noble Quran to be Difficult to comprehend, and to be quite a challenge to interpret and translate, because:

    1- He Chose to have the Miracle of the Noble Quran be an ever lasting one by living in the text of the Holy Book Itself.

    2- To demonstrate Its Divinity to the Arabs back then, who were very experienced/mature, fluent and also addicted to poetry, along with the Arabic-speaking people today, and to challenge them and to show them that certainly the Noble Quran is not just an average everyday book. It is indeed a Divine Miracle, proving that Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, is indeed a Truthful and real Prophet.

    3- This is Allah Almighty's way to Lead to the Right Path whom He pleases and to Lead astray whom He pleases.

    Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, said the following Hadith (saying):
    Narrated Abu Huraira: "I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "I have been sent with Jawami al-Kalim (i.e., the shortest expression carrying the widest meanings), and I was made victorious with awe (caste into the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the earth were brought to me and were put in my hand." Muhammad said, Jawami'-al-Kalim means that Allah expresses in one or two statements or thereabouts the numerous matters that used to be written in the books revealed before (the coming of) the Prophet. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Interpretation of Dreams, Volume 9, Book 87, Number 141)"

    PS. You never learn do you, your impressions only last a little while
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    (Original post by roots)
    You forgot to post:

    2- The complex language of Arabic:

    Arabic is a very complex, artistic and poetical language by nature! A single word can mean a host of meanings. The art and beauty of Arabic comes in how a person constructs and puts together words to form a sentence or paragraph. The art and creativity in the style and poetry are what determine the strength and beauty of the sentence or poem. That is why the Noble Quran is extremely difficult to understand sometimes, even by the fluent and professional Arabic speakers. That is why Muslims always say that the translations of the Noble Quran do it absolutely no justice, because the poetry and complexity of language-art are completely compromised in the translation. What the English reader, for instance, is left with when reading the English Noble Quran, is the subject that the Noble Verses are talking about. But he/she doesn't see the beautiful and complex stylistic and linguistic Divine Miracle that the Arabic text carries in it.
    Arabic in the Quran is simple hence why the same word is used for different things.

    At any rate, Allah Almighty Chose for the Noble Quran to be Difficult to comprehend, and to be quite a challenge to interpret and translate, because:

    1- He Chose to have the Miracle of the Noble Quran be an ever lasting one by living in the text of the Holy Book Itself.

    2- To demonstrate Its Divinity to the Arabs back then, who were very experienced/mature, fluent and also addicted to poetry, along with the Arabic-speaking people today, and to challenge them and to show them that certainly the Noble Quran is not just an average everyday book. It is indeed a Divine Miracle, proving that Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, is indeed a Truthful and real Prophet.
    A miracle? It is impossible to understand and can be interpreted in too many ways hence the total confusion amongst scholars who cant agree on what it means. I'm sure God would have foreseen confusion arising from his 'eternal word' yet he kept it this way. Maybe God only wanted to impress the Arabs of the day? Many of the Arab speaking people today speak a different dialect to the one in the Quran.
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    Arabic in the Quran is simple hence why the same word is used for different things.

    Why dont you enrol on a class which teaches Arabic and see for yourself, speak to the scholars or is it back to hateislam.com

    A miracle?

    Yes, the Quran is the miracle until the end of time as this is the final ummah, yes he is a Prophet sent for you too.

    It is impossible to understand and can be interpreted in too many ways hence the total confusion amongst scholars who cant agree on what it means.

    No, it is possible to understand, you just dont want to, theyre not confused, again their are several meanings

    I'm sure God would have foreseen confusion arising from his 'eternal word' yet he kept it this way.

    You want to talk about translations, in fact this is one of the miracles. I see how Western controllers have tried to make the language out to be something inferior when in fact it is the richest language in the world.

    Maybe God only wanted to impress the Arabs of the day? Many of the Arab speaking people today speak a different dialect to the one in the Quran.


    No, he wanted to impress you today but youre destroying yourself through your arrogance and stubborness

    1/ Language of the Quran is superior to the language of the Prophet
    2/ Language of the Prophet is inferior to that of the Quran
    3/ Language of the Arabs was inferior to the language of the Prophet
    4/ Language of todays Arabs is different to the language of the Arabs 1500 years ago
    5/ And still the Quran is the most valuable book on the face of the earth
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    (Original post by roots)
    5/ And still the Quran is the most valuable book on the face of the earth
    I'm sure Christians would beg to differ :yep:
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    (Original post by roots)
    It is impossible to understand and can be interpreted in too many ways hence the total confusion amongst scholars who cant agree on what it means.

    No, it is possible to understand, you just dont want to, theyre not confused, again their are several meanings
    How is it in anyway possible to understand if there are several meanings? All that indicates is that it is so vague one can derive their own meaning that suits them. Not much of a guideline is it?
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    (Original post by n1r4v)
    I'm sure Christians would beg to differ :yep:
    Im sure youre right but theirs no substance to their claims, their blind to the verses in their(notice i didnt say Gods because theyve distorted it so much and dont want to believe theyve been lied to) book

    No crucifiction no Christianity

    No trinity no Christianity
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    (Original post by roots)
    Im sure youre right but theirs no substance to their claims, their blind to the verses in their(notice i didnt say Gods because theyve distorted it so much and dont want to believe theyve been lied to) book

    No crucifiction no Christianity

    No trinity no Christianity
    I presume I'll never get an answer to that other post?
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    I presume youd rather the Christians would become atheists if and when they go through their period of doubts

    The only other religion which reveres Isa (as) is Islam, in fact many of you use his name in a derogatory manner

    5:82. Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.
    83. And when they listen to the revelation received by the Messenger, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognise the truth: they pray: "Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses.

    Shame that their are few actual Christians alive even though many claim to be

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