[InVinoVeritas]

(Original post by reems23)
Ok. How's this. The human body is a series of processes and functions due to the flows of ions various chemicals which make us work. Science explains that. But what makes it all work. What tells the brain to send a nerve message due the various action potentials, so that your muscles move. What is the soul in essence. How does science explain the brain. And if evolution is correct, what made the first cell 'alive'. What gave the first prokaryote that will to survive, which would have otherwise just been a collection of molecules. What gave it that first spark which meant it had the desire to reproduce?

If science can explain to me these questions, I will instantly become an atheist.

There is no "will to survive" in prokaryotic cells. If you'll bear with me I'll try to explain.

Firstly, "life" is a very loosely defined concept. You could argue that some computer programmes are starting to border on the realms of "living". Life started from a bunch of molecules which replicated themselves, this is a prerequisite for a living organsim. The ones which happened to replicate themselves more because more common, and those which replicated less went extinct. There was no "will" to replicate, no concious effort at all, it just so happens that some molecules happen to make copies of themselves.

Far more "advanced" organisms are now alive on Earth due to evolution via natural selection. Our nervous system happens to give the illusion of some kind of soul, governing life, but at the end of the day we have very few essential differences from the first prokaryotes. The brain is just a very complicated computer that has grown from evolution rather than a concious designer, nothing supernatural, though I would definatly point it out to be one of the many natural wonders to be marvelled at.

Finally, I would like to apologise for the tone of my previous post, it was rather condescending.

phil.

[Ryan the Invincible]

(Original post by reems23)
Ok. How's this. The human body is a series of processes and functions due to the flows of ions various chemicals which make us work. Science explains that. But what makes it all work. What tells the brain to send a nerve message due the various action potentials, so that your muscles move? What is the soul in essence? How does science explain the brain. And if evolution is correct, what made the first cell 'alive'? What gave the first prokaryote that will to survive? which would have otherwise just been a collection of molecules. What gave it that first spark which meant it had the desire to reproduce?

If science can explain to me these questions, I will instantly become an atheist.

Firstly, the prokaryote was alive since its genetic material allowed it to reproduce. This didn't mean it was necessarily alive in the sense of advanced animals what can think and carry out extremely complex biological processes. The final spark could have been the production of some simple protein that aided RNA molecules to replicate. Also it didn't have a conscious 'will' to survive, it's genetic information just caused it to survive. I'd recommend some of Dawkins books like the Blind Watchmaker and the Selfish Gene to see some more detailed and undoubtedly better explanations.

[reems23]

(Original post by Ryan the Invincible)
Firstly, the prokaryote was alive since its genetic material allowed it to reproduce. This didn't mean it was necessarily alive in the sense of advanced animals what can think and carry out extremely complex biological processes. The final spark could have been the production of some simple protein that aided RNA molecules to replicate. Also it didn't have a conscious 'will' to survive, it's genetic information just caused it to survive. I'd recommend some of Dawkins books like the Blind Watchmaker and the Selfish Gene to see some more detailed and undoubtedly better explanations.

How can that happen by accident?
How can a protein, so ridiculously complicated, so intricate in every single one of its bonds, even one mutation and its ******.
How can that happen by accident?

[reems23]

(Original post by InVinoVeritas)
There is no "will to survive" in prokaryotic cells. If you'll bear with me I'll try to explain.

Firstly, "life" is a very loosely defined concept. You could argue that some computer programmes are starting to border on the realms of "living". Life started from a bunch of molecules which replicated themselves, this is a prerequisite for a living organsim. The ones which happened to replicate themselves more because more common, and those which replicated less went extinct. There was no "will" to replicate, no concious effort at all, it just so happens that some molecules happen to make copies of themselves.

Far more "advanced" organisms are now alive on Earth due to evolution via natural selection. Our nervous system happens to give the illusion of some kind of soul, governing life, but at the end of the day we have very few essential differences from the first prokaryotes. The brain is just a very complicated computer that has grown from evolution rather than a concious designer, nothing supernatural, though I would definatly point it out to be one of the many natural wonders to be marvelled at.

Finally, I would like to apologise for the tone of my previous post, it was rather condescending.

phil.

The main problem with this is that it's all guesswork, and science defines itself by research, evidence and proof. There is no substantial proof for what you say, why can't humans develop a self replicating molecule? If you suggest that a series of molecules just 'happened' to self replicate, why can't we do it again?

[Darkness and Mist]

Which god/gods are in question here?

And there quite clearly is not enough recognition of us polytheists in the religion board

[Myth717]

o and I would suggest people watch a few vids by someone called zakir naik hes memorised all the religious scriptures, this guy really knows what hes talking about wether science, religion, politics. Just watch a few of his vids, I know hes kinda funny to listen/watch but ull get used to him, he has audiences exceeding 80000 people, spare some time and watch him, thats all...

[Myth717]

"Life started from a bunch of molecules " ----- 1 Question, where did those molecules come from, I mean think about it ........... someone created those molecules, we were created, some people doubt god exists, because god created time, our minds cannot grasp the concept......

I think thats what I wanted to say..

[roots]

God also created space

Where do you think the space in which everything exists comes from??

That should if thought about and understood debunk atheism/evolution

[ABF]

Even if God does exist, I see no reason to praise him.

[roots]

Every resolute Muslim I know agrees that this man is a free-radical and interprets the Qur'an how he wants to make it appear intellectually bankrupt

You said every Muslim i wont ask you for that, ill be nice, give me a statement from every single Muslim scholar agreeing to your view!

- his argument relating the Qur'an to science are totally derisory.

Are you scared?

Islamic scholars like Umar Ibn Al-Khattab would destroy him in argument - if you're going to quote someone, at least let them be credible. He just popularises the religion without any substance.

Why would they have an argument?

He speaks sense in a way that people understand

You want to twist things so that people believe your view

[roots]

(Original post by ABF)
Even if God does exist, I see no reason to praise him.

If you were to die now and on the Day of Judgement be bought up in that state.................

I dont want to continue

[coszcatl]

Maybe a 'god' exists. Maybe he's an evil barstad and that's why suffering occurs. Analogous to when my sister plays the sims and deliberately causes fires and walks the sims into them and kills them.
Seriously, though, I'm agnostic. When I've been through really tough times I've 'prayed' for a god/spirit to help me through things....but I completely reject all forms of organised religion that I've encountered. They all seem to divide rather than unite people/cause strife,,,apart from being very illogical.
My dad's a converted Jehovah's Witness and he does a lot of Bible study now (thankfully I don't live with him) He believes that his holy book is the literal word of God. It upsets me because he's actually very clever and used to be a scientist. I asked him if he would look in his Bible for references to dinosaurs/beings before humans existing long ago...he said he'd get back to me

[roots]

You can still get me a collection of statements from every scholar criticising him cant you?

At least do that for me

[PowerPuffBoy]

can god make a stone he can't lift??!

[Darkened Angel]

(Original post by reems23)
How can that happen by accident?
How can a protein, so ridiculously complicated, so intricate in every single one of its bonds, even one mutation and its ******.
How can that happen by accident?

Amino acids can be created quite easily, I'd suggest reading about the Miller/Urey experiment -
http://www.chem.duke.edu/~jds/cruise...gy/miller.html

There's some scepticism concerning the experiment though but it shows that organic chemicals can be created.

[Good bloke]

(Original post by Darkness and Mist)
Which god/gods are in question here?

And there quite clearly is not enough recognition of us polytheists in the religion board

Surely if you can't prove the existence of a single god, you will be hard pushed to prove the existence of a whole load of them?

[Tootles]

(Original post by reems23)
Believing in God is an irrational choice, and those religious people who accept that and are comfortable with the fact that religion can't be explained through earthly ways, they are the people who are truly religious and at peace with themselves.

More than that; God can't be explained through earthly ways, which is what many people refuse to accept, yet what lies at the essence of Belief. Well said.

As for what my argument would be: I'm not sure I could summarize it into a post on a forum; I have many different reasons that would take too long to explain, and I would probably not be able to without speaking face-to-face. Suffice it to say, though, that my reasons are very personal, and I have seen more than enough proof of His existence to satisfy any doubts that may arise in my heart.

[stibbit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFO6ZhUW38w A great video on this topic.

I don't believe in god, but it's up to people whether they choose to believe in god or science tbh.

[FunkyIguana]

Apologies if this sounds over-simplistic, but I think the very nature of God in any theo-religious sense precludes a scientific or otherwise 'definitive' proof. Belief in a higher order is simply a leap of faith: one is either willing to accept His existence or not.

Such 'leaps' of blind faith are not uncommon in our everyday lives. Consider love: can the way we feel about a special someone be broken down into particles and protons? If someone told you that you didn't really 'love' a person you considered your soul-mate, simply because there was no scientific formula to prove it, would you accept that? Surely not: you'd contend that the nature of love was simply unprovable; and yet you were willing to believe in it anyway.

I could be (and no doubt am!) missing something blatantly obvious, but I really don't see how belief in God is any different.

[Darkness and Mist]

(Original post by Good bloke)
Surely if you can't prove the existence of a single god, you will be hard pushed to prove the existence of a whole load of them?

My gods are not omnipresent or omnipotent and are mortal. It is a lot easier to try and prove than you think, though I wouldnt bother trying to prove their existence as it is what I would call a fruitless challenge.