[Zaki]

(Original post by Bilco)
If it is a natural occurance it is going to happen in the natural world as we understand it. Unless you have another position to take we don't need to assert god into this.

Not necessarily as you understand it. Why do you imagine it must be understandable to you in order to be real? what arrogance! Perhaps you think Nature has to take permission from you before It does anything?

[Bilco]

(Original post by Zaki)
Not necessarily as you understand it. Why do you imagine it must be understandable to you in order to be real? what arrogance! Perhaps you think Nature has to take permission from you before it does anything?

What other reality would you want to look at beyond the one we understand? Unless you want to speculate and nothing more, why do we need to operate on any other position?

[Zaki]

(Original post by Bilco)
What other reality would you want to look at beyond the one we understand? Unless you want to speculate and nothing more, why do we need to operate on any other position?

Are you suggesting that you already know all that could possibly be known? Strewth!

[Bilco]

(Original post by Zaki)
Are you suggesting that you already know all that could possibly be known? Strewth!

Did I even hint that? I don't think I did.

[Zaki]

(Original post by Bilco)
Did I even hint that? I don't think I did.

There lies your problem: You're clearly not properly aware of the meanings of the words you use. Or of the ideas you express using them. Otherwise how could you possibly suggest that you know the boundary between what is knowable and what is unknowable?

[Bilco]

(Original post by Zaki)
There lies your problem: You're clearly not properly aware of the meanings of the words you use. Or of the ideas you express using them.

I say that I think it is best to operate using knowledge from reality as we understand it. You take that to mean that I say we know everything about all possible reality. I think we have a communication problem here.

[Zaki]

(Original post by Bilco)
I say that I think it is best to operate using knowledge from reality as we understand it........

That is your prerogative. It is called "narrow-mindedness". It is the sort of attitude of mind that leads some people to think, when they encounter other people with considerably more or less melanin in their skins, for instance, that they are not human - since they do not fit their existing notions of humanity.

[Bilco]

(Original post by Zaki)
That is your prerogative. It is called "narrow-mindedness". It is the sort of attitude of mind that leads some people to think, when they encounter other people with considerably more or less melanin in their skins, for instance, that they are not human - since they do not fit their existing notions of humanity.

Narrow-mindedness. Are you now intentionally taking the p*** ? I prefer to operate on claims to knowledge from a reality that we understand and you say that is narrow-mindedness. You must be taking the p*** now. If you're not going to take discussion seriously then don't get involved in them in the first place.

[Zaki]

(Original post by Bilco)
Narrow-mindedness. Are you now intentionally taking the p*** ? I prefer to operate on claims to knowledge from a reality that we understand and you say that is narrow-mindedness. You must be taking the p*** now. If you're not going to take discussion seriously then don't get involved in them in the first place.

The reality you understand is obviously very different from the reality others understand. Is this not so? What makes you think that reality or discussions about it should be limited to what you understand? If a blind man insisted discussions of the mechanisms of existence be limited to his non-visual world would that be reasonable?

[Bilco]

(Original post by Zaki)
The reality you understand is obviously very different from the reality others understand. Is this not so? What makes you think that reality or discussions about it should be limited to what you understand?

I didn't say me personally. Reading back I didn't even say 'me'. I said 'we'. Referring to the species. Please read what I write before replying.

[Zaki]

(Original post by Bilco)
I didn't say me personally. Reading back I didn't even say 'me'. I said 'we'. Referring to the species. Please read what I write before replying.

What makes you think you're in a position to speak for the species?

Anyway, I think this is a good time to go for my breakfast rather than.....

[SMed]

(Original post by noisy06)
It's easy to say that, up until you actually recite the Qur'an yourself. That's all I'm saying, It's up to you whether you choose to do that or not ultimately, and I'm just saying to help you assess Islam, the Qur'an is the be-all and end-all. If the recitation of the Qur'an can't get you to believe in Islam, nothing will in my opinion.

And yet we have many, many ex-muslims. http://ex-muslim.org.uk/

[kartavya]

i dont think it is god. i am a science student and belive that a invisible energy which surrounds ; which brings about all the motionv is termed as god

[Good bloke]

(Original post by Zaki)
Indeed it is. Which is why I adjure you to give up your belief in your belief in your deity - matter - whose power to do ANYTHING is completely unproven? Are you superstitious?

I've told you several times that this is rubbish and that I don't consider matter to be a deity.

(Original post by Zaki)
How, exactly, do you test for sentience - "scientifically" or otherwise?

I'll leave you to google for that.

[mermania]

(Original post by noisy06)
This is a waste of time, the "I wouldn't do it why would God" line really made me appreciate the angle you are attempting to argue from. It's absurd, firstly God is not similar to us in the least and for you to attempt to put yourself in God's "shoe" so to speak, is the pinnacle of irrationality with respect to all religious scriptures, and also pure blasphemy. I have also had many detailed discussions on here outlining Islam's explanation with relation to how our human logic correlates with God and His attributes.You're approaching the matter in a nonsensical way from my perspective, add that to the fact that you don't even believe in God in the first place or religion and we have a good recipe for how to debate pointlessly.

I'm not trying to argue or debate, only understand. I don't understand why a "perfect" being would want people to worship it. That's all. Obviously your perspective is that God said we should do it and God is really powerful so we should never question him and do everything he says in case he punishes us for disobedience. That's fine.

[jam277]

(Original post by Zaki)
How do you even picture the Owner of ALL Power as "power-hungry"? And are you sure you're not just jealous of the achievements of the Jews who, weren't given anything they'd didn't earn with the hardest efforts - thereby making you a racist?

LOL!!! He is power hungry, he wants everyone to worship him, if you don't worship him you will be sent to hell,just like a dictator does and we all know that dictator's are power hungry.
I don't have a clue what you mean by the second sentence. I am not a racist, I couldn't give less of a damn of the achievement of the jews, I thought you didn't even believe in the bible but just believed in a God anyway?
*sighs*

[jam277]

(Original post by Bilco)
Narrow-mindedness. Are you now intentionally taking the p*** ? I prefer to operate on claims to knowledge from a reality that we understand and you say that is narrow-mindedness. You must be taking the p*** now. If you're not going to take discussion seriously then don't get involved in them in the first place.

He just called me a racist for saying that God favoured the jews. He doesn't even believe in the bloody bible. He is definitely taking the piss.

[Zaki]

(Original post by kartavya)
i dont think it is god. i am a science student and belive that a invisible energy which surrounds ; which brings about all the motionv is termed as god

And why can't this thing that brings everything else into being be God?

[Zaki]

(Original post by jam277)
He just called me a racist for saying that God favoured the jews. He doesn't even believe in the bloody bible. He is definitely taking the piss.

Your biased interpretation of the Bible can hardly be regarded as knowledge of the Bible.

[Zaki]

(Original post by jam277)
LOL!!! He is power hungry, he wants everyone to worship him, if you don't worship him you will be sent to hell,just like a dictator does and we all know that dictator's are power hungry.
I don't have a clue what you mean by the second sentence. I am not a racist, I couldn't give less of a damn of the achievement of the jews, I thought you didn't even believe in the bible but just believed in a God anyway?
*sighs*

If you do not respect the laws of nature which say you should not bang your head against a brick wall what happens? Worshipping God has nothing to do with servility, dictation, or oppression - just prudence; for God is the Law of the Universe! Worshipping God simply means observing the Law of the Universe.

Worhipping matter and/or self, as atheists do though, is the most miserable existence possible - as it leaves you in a state of utter meaninglessness.