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Does God Exist?

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    (Original post by SaintSoldier)
    I know this probably seems like a stupid example to most atheists, but ever since I started taking my religion more seriously (when I was 14), I haven't once been ill, I haven't even had a cough or cold since then. Before that I used to be the kid who was always off school for one reason or another.

    I'm not saying that validates my religion or anything, but that's just my personal experience.
    In the same way s homeopathy. Could be true..

    Thats the strongest argument i can think of in favour of religion. But theres my above point. Also belief in ones bodies abilities to fend off infections, in ones mind to do great things. Belief in ones self would i think work just as well. Interesting that this way of thinking, belief in the greatness of ones self, based on ones own power of reason would be to some extent propped up by he ability to live in harsh reality as opposed to the belief in the greatness of another over ones self which is propped up by the thought of another and ones dislike for the harshness of reality. They seem in this way to be opposites with the same result regarding the experience you describe.
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    I believe God to be a symbol of faith.
    THere is a difference in KNOWING it god exists and believing he exists.

    Despite the fact that we might never know the answer to this question, one must take a consequentialist view. God is a powerful tool, which can be a weapon to implement war or peace. Can bring happiness or sadness. millions of people are united my one common (and possibly imaginary) entity.
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    Yes there is more to this world than what meets the eye
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    (Original post by ChubbyWatermelon)
    I believe God to be a symbol of faith.
    THere is a difference in KNOWING it god exists and believing he exists.

    Despite the fact that we might never know the answer to this question, one must take a consequentialist view. God is a powerful tool, which can be a weapon to implement war or peace. Can bring happiness or sadness. millions of people are united my one common (and possibly imaginary) entity.
    Trouble is tho if everyones doing as god says people can control huge swathes of people by making god say something else. If people put trust in reason that would only happen if someone was several levels above everyone else in terms of smarts. If people believed primarily in themselves and their own ability to think then sure youd have feelings of anger and hate largely unchecked by anything perceived as above but youd have complete human beings. Capable of striking at those who treat them badly, of loving family, of bonds of friendship. Most importantly they can only fight for a cause when that cause is backed by reason or injustice directly affecting the individual in question. The idea we get from religion round these parts is that many human feelings are just bad. I disagree. If someone steals my fags ill get angry and punch them. If he continues to steal my fags ill hate him and be not very nice. Hence people know not to steal my fags, but to go and steal a christians fags instead.

    If someone is unbalanced, too much anger making them hit someone who bumps into them. Too much love meaning homer simpson thinks he can furnish his garage with your tools. Thats the problem. Not perfectly healthy human feelings but illness. So gods still all wrong from a consequentialist perspective. And thats without even getting on to the sex obsession with its condom denying african missionaries.

    Oh and we can know. Its quite simple. Go down to your hospitals cardiac dept, call over a doctor and stick your fingers in a power socket. 100 kudos to anyone who actually does this.

    Any writing that tells of a philosophical viewpoint should end "Thats what I reckon anyway. Take from it that which makes sense to you".
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    (Original post by green.tea)
    Someone I know is/was a spiritualist. He lived happily until the person who used his belief, which came about as the result of the death of his father, to control him, died.

    Ive never seen someone collapse so quickly. Cant help thinking it may have been better if he'd bore the brunt of reality when it really hurt. Granted spiritualism is nonsense on steroids but similar could happen in richard hammond type ways. Its a risk. Happiness reliant on a house of cards. Walking into a blizzard when your not strong enough anymore. A sad, undignified end.
    Well nothing bad has ever happened to me, and I'm not stupid enough to ignore reality just because I am religious.
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    I listed a couple of things that would show God does exist. There's a prophecy written in Daniel's time, that predicts to the very year that Jesus would be crucified.

    http://www.bethlehemstar.net/day/day.htm#daniel

    Also, here is a documentary piece explaining what was happening in the sky at Jesus birth, and His death on the cross...



    This is amazing stuff, no other religion has this much proof going for it. Where it's prophecies actually happen and can be proven!

    Again, I mentioned some other stuff as well, such as some things with Israel, and the spreading of the Gospel. There's a lot of evidence out there, we just got to reach out for it.

    Finally, here's a major point I want to make. I've seen people's idea of sin, what God's like, and so on. The conclusion I get is that the world's understanding of who God is, is totally wrong. Not even close. With those wrong ideas, it's no wonder we can't see the evidence of His existence. Take the Bible's stance on homosexuality for instance. How can God condemn people for being born homosexual? God will agree they are born with their bodies having homosexual desires. That is the point. Just like we are all born with desires to lie, desires to be envious, desires to hate, so on and so on. Our very bodies are corrupt. That is the point! This is why Jesus came, to save us and give us a new nature. A perfect nature. So there is nothing wrong with homosexuality in itself, there is everything wrong with human nature.

    Another thing is God's omniscience. Why would God create us if He knew we would sin? He didn't know we would sin, because there was nothing to know before He created us. Our will cannot exist before we exist. So these are just some things that the world doesn't have any idea about, leaving them looking in the wrong areas when it comes to looking for evidence of God's existence.
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    (Original post by justmyopinions)
    Well nothing bad has ever happened to me, and I'm not stupid enough to ignore reality just because I am religious.
    What if you had a torchwood revival glove style "ZOMG THERES NOTHING!!" type thing in your seventies? All the pain of all the people youd lost in all that time and fear of death that youd dodged with your beliefs would come crashing down on your head like an acme anvil.
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    (Original post by green.tea)
    I think belief is mental laziness. The only way, in my view, for a mind to see truth is with eagerness to re weigh its firmest conclusions all the time. To me belief is the point where you stop thinking about something. Seemingly this is the very much the case with true religious belief (try asking a muslim to consider for a moment for the sake of argument that god might not exist) so you, SMed, use the word as tho it means the same when clearly to you it doesnt.

    In religion and politics people become entrenched in beliefs. I struggle to take religious and mob political people seriously for this reason. But am never in any way hostile on a personal level to them or anyone else who holds ideas that conflict with my own. Other people are ive found. You only have to look at political discourse. For a while i was always shocked when id disagree with someone and then theyd not want to sit next to me or whatever. Vulcans are good. If we were more like them id find people more agreeable. What should be a case of correcting each others reasoning or a contest to see who's is best is to some a cause for ill humour. Noticing that the left are more guilty than the right id say that equality politics and religion have in common that they are psychological comfort blankets. Anyone attempting to remove them is hated in a way that the person isnt in control of. You cant help disliking the guy that keeps trying to take away your dummy.

    Your right about the 100% thing. I find this http://www.simulation-argument.com/ to be great fun. But nobody ever wants to play with me. It could be described as a religion based on reason I guess. God as a posthuman computer geek. A cure for certainty.

    Waffle waffle waffle etc etc. I like subjects like this.
    Still think you're getting bogged down in semantics of language. "I believe there is not a lion in my room" is a reasonable statement.
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    (Original post by Okashira)
    I listed a couple of things that would show God does exist. There's a prophecy written in Daniel's time, that predicts to the very year that Jesus would be crucified.
    Some dude in the bible predicted stuff that happened in the bible. Wow. Have you ever seen star wars with anakin ending up killing sidious and fulfilling the prophecy by restoring balance to force? Its incredible that they actually knew that before the end of the film.

    http://www.bethlehemstar.net/day/day.htm#daniel

    Also, here is a documentary piece explaining what was happening in the sky at Jesus birth, and His death on the cross...



    This is amazing stuff, no other religion has this much proof going for it. Where it's prophecies actually happen and can be proven!
    The dude in the book im writing was born under halley's comet. THE MESSIAH. Btw, this is a simulation and im a posthuman here to tell you that anyone who does as i say gets a root body in the real world. Honest.
    Again, I mentioned some other stuff as well, such as some things with Israel, and the spreading of the Gospel. There's a lot of evidence out there, we just got to reach out for it.

    Finally, here's a major point I want to make. I've seen people's idea of sin, what God's like, and so on. The conclusion I get is that the world's understanding of who God is, is totally wrong. Not even close. With those wrong ideas, it's no wonder we can't see the evidence of His existence. Take the Bible's stance on homosexuality for instance. How can God condemn people for being born homosexual? God will agree they are born with their bodies having homosexual desires. That is the point. Just like we are all born with desires to lie, desires to be envious, desires to hate, so on and so on. Our very bodies are corrupt
    Mine isnt.

    That is the point! This is why Jesus came, to save us and give us a new nature. A perfect nature. So there is nothing wrong with homosexuality in itself, there is everything wrong with human nature.
    I can see why you might think that

    Another thing is God's omniscience. Why would God create us if He knew we would sin? He didn't know we would sin, because there was nothing to know before He created us. Our will cannot exist before we exist. So these are just some things that the world doesn't have any idea about, leaving them looking in the wrong areas when it comes to looking for evidence of God's existence.
    How terribly convenient.
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    (Original post by green.tea)
    What if you had a torchwood revival glove style "ZOMG THERES NOTHING!!" type thing in your seventies? All the pain of all the people youd lost in all that time and fear of death that youd dodged with your beliefs would come crashing down on your head like an acme anvil.
    No, because there is no 100% proof that there is no life after death.
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    (Original post by SMed)
    Still think you're getting bogged down in semantics of language. "I believe there is not a lion in my room" is a reasonable statement.
    Is it tho? Humans could die out and it could be highly evolved lions that create simulations of the past. By typing that you got their attention so now theres several lions in your room.
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    (Original post by green.tea)
    Is it tho? Humans could die out and it could be highly evolved lions that create simulations of the past. By typing that you got their attention so now theres several lions in your room.
    As I said in another post, "I don't 100% know there aren't lions in my room, but I believe there aren't."

    I'm not going to argue definitions with you. If your definition doesn't accommodate the above statement, then no, by your definition "I don't believe there aren't lions in my room".

    Words simply describe facts/claims/statements about the world, if we can't agree on a definition then lets stick to the facts about the world.

    I'd rather masturbate with a cheese grater then argue about definitions.
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    (Original post by justmyopinions)
    No, because there is no 100% proof that there is no life after death.
    Granted. But reason places the probability of afterlife far lower than lack of one.
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    (Original post by SMed)
    As I said in another post, "I don't 100% know there aren't lions in my room, but I believe there aren't."

    I'm not going to argue definitions with you. If your definition doesn't accommodate the above statement, then no, by your definition "I don't believe there aren't lions in my room".

    Words simply describe facts/claims/statements about the world, if we can't agree on a definition then lets stick to the facts about the world.

    I'd rather masturbate with a cheese grater then argue about definitions.
    You must really dislike arguing about definitions.
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    Or i suppose theres a small outside chance that you like masturbating with cheese graters...
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    (Original post by green.tea)
    You must really dislike arguing about definitions.
    (Original post by green.tea)
    Or i suppose theres a small outside chance that you like masturbating with cheese graters...
    What do you believe? You'll never know 100%.
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    (Original post by SMed)
    What do you believe? You'll never know 100%.
    I have insufficient information to draw a reliable conclusion.
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    (Original post by Okashira)
    .
    None of the arguments made are enforced with reasonable evidence and most of it is circular logic.

    On top of that, you contradict yourself when you call 'God' omniscient then go on to say that he didn't know something.

    I'm sorry but I can't see how anyone other than someone with extremely biased preconcenptions can consider your arguments viable.
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    God satisfies one thing, and one thing only, Emotional Structure and Satisfaction. Which isn't a bad thing, I like the idea of when we all die, we will all see each other again, and that is not us done for the rest of eternity. However, i think the sad truth is, we are so intelligent, unlike other animals, we worry about the end of life, and have made up comforting 'fairy tales' to deal with the consequences of our intelligence.

    Science and truth is one thing, Human Emotion is another.
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Updated: August 21, 2012
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