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Does God Exist?

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    (Original post by zohaib029)
    I wish to join the debate seriously by adding this picture.
    The self replicating part should make the "scientific" atheists wonder abit
    Samsung > Apple
    Why should it? Pretty sure it can be explained perfectly well at a molecular level, if not it makes a much better argument than a self-perpetuating deity with ultimate control of the universe.

    (I'm not preparing to join in this properly, it's too frustrating and I have better things to be doing ).

    PS. Your inequality sign is the wrong way round.
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    Yes god exists
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    (Original post by reems23)
    I am because I think.

    If my mind, my essence, is just a bunch of chemical reactions, then everything I hold dear, my very existence is a lie. I'm not a person then, just a series of chemical processes which begins and ends. And that's not something I would like to confront as it scares me ********.
    This is why people believe in religion, because they are scared. They want to know that there is something more, an easy way out. I believe God exists because man wishes him to .
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    (Original post by noisy06)
    Yes, it wasn't good for humanity, but that didn't stop them did it? They only saw what is in it for themselves, and rightly so. I think we may have reached some common ground here. Nice work.
    This is the last time I'll try and explain it - it was "good" for them as it helped ensure their survival and the survival of their community. No, it wasn't "good" for humanity as a whole - but neither is what would be called "moral" behaviour today.

    The difference is that nowadays, the world is a lot more connected and broken down into few and few separate communities - so what's "good" for the community is more likely to be "good" for humanity.
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    (Original post by zohaib029)
    I wish to join the debate seriously by adding this picture.
    The self replicating part should make the "scientific" atheists wonder abit
    Samsung > Apple
    Atheism is just a lack of belief. If someone shrugs their shoulders and says "I don't know what happened. Lets follow the science and try to work this out. There's no evidence as of yet to your deity idea, by the way." then they are an atheist.

    Putting it like that makes it far harder to ridicule.
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    God must exist because how did the mountains, rivers, deserts, animals, plants, oceans and us human beings get here? All from one big explosion called the Big Bang? No way!

    Just look at the detail in a person's eye, so accurate and beautiful, a creator must surely have established it - and that must be God.
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    (Original post by rackethead)
    God must exist because how did the mountains, rivers, deserts, animals, plants, oceans and us human beings get here? All from one big explosion called the Big Bang? No way!

    Just look at the detail in a person's eye, so accurate and beautiful, a creator must surely have established it - and that must be God.
    God has eyes presumably, so he created something using something he's yet to create? Sounds legit...

    (Maybe God was secretly a quantum physicist or non-existent).

    PS. Don't get me wrong, feel free to believe in God, but don't use that ^ as your argument. I would rather stick with science, it does things way better than religion.)

    Edit: I don't mean to disrespect you or your views, but using those examples for your reasoning isn't that strong. Whatever you need to get through your life is your own business.
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    (Original post by rackethead)
    God must exist because how did the mountains, rivers, deserts, animals, plants, oceans and us human beings get here? All from one big explosion called the Big Bang? No way!

    Just look at the detail in a person's eye, so accurate and beautiful, a creator must surely have established it - and that must be God.
    interactions between tectonic plates,
    water eroding land or flowing into valleys when travelling down to it's level (oceans/seas) due to gravity,
    regions starved of water, few plants grow, soil therefore easily lost to wind and other factors, leaving the harsh, near inhospitable rocky areas (plus climate changes due to heat retention of the surface, location on the surface of the earth, air currents etc.)
    Single celled organisms becoming multicellular and increasingly more complex, leading up to lifeforms we see today.
    Plate tectonics, oceanic plates moving underneath continental plates, moving the land upwards (further from the core), causing areas of solid land to exist above the level of water.
    Evolved from an earlier form of animal.
    Quite possibly. How do you know for sure?

    Asserting that there must be a creator, without evidence to support the assertion, then asserting that, without knowledge that there definitely was a creator, the identity of the creator is known.


    Might want to present a better argument than that.
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    http://www.everystudent.com/wires/Godreal.html
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    yeah thats not a good argument yes we have DNA but this offers no evidence to suggest god is required for that DNA.

    david Hume ****ted up the designed argument a long time ago
    1 design can appear from random process like snowflakes, so that shows god may not be required
    2 we don't have multiple universes to look at and say wow that universe hasn't got a designer and its a ****hole.
    3 no evidence is provided to show a christen or islamic god neither does it suggest a lone god
    4 there is a lot of poor design. the vast majority of the universe is lethal to us. Why are there countless animals with advantages over me. Eagles have better eye sight. several animals have secondary "mouths" preventing them from choking. We are basically blind when it comes to the electromagnetic spectrum other animals can see more than we can. Gofers can see gamma rays so to avoid them we cant.

    they have provided no evidence at all and to suggest life with out god is meaningless is idiot statistically atheist countries have population who live longer, more happier and less prejudice. I could just as easily suggest life with god is meaningless.
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    arent you bored of asking the same question? yes he exists end of story
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    (Original post by umarrehman187)
    arent you bored of asking the same question? yes he exists end of story
    If you discuss it properly then the debate is very interesting to a lot of people. Same with a lot of topics. It's assertions like that, that simply raise more questions than answers.
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    (Original post by umarrehman187)
    arent you bored of asking the same question? yes he exists end of story
    It is quite literally just a story until you can provide evidence to substantiate that claim.
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    Okay so you want proof that God does right? Alright the ways of knowing that something exists are either seeing it, hearing it, touching it or seeing it's effect on other objects.
    and because some of you guys reached the point of saying that emotions don't exist of the are just chemicals is our bodies so we can't use that example. So how about air, normally u can't see hear or smell air but you can obviously see it's affect on other things. So why can't it be the same thing for God. You can clearly see all the different things that do prove that he exists. And if you still don't think that that makes sense and is true try proving to me how you know the big bang occured according to you guys you must have been nothing at the time . If you want to know that God exsists I can prove it to you practically, on a stormy day, when there is really a bad storm go out into the ocean and wait right to moment when you're about to die, if you survive this and come back saying that you called on nothing for help then you're probably lying.
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    (Original post by Kabadakari Kabara)
    So how about air, normally you can't see hear or smell air but you can obviously see it's affect on other things. So why can't it be the same thing for God.
    Because air is observable, both in it's effects on other things and if you run it through a mass spec machine (like a breathalyser) you can measure it's contents - neither is true of God.

    You can clearly see all the different things that do prove that he exists.
    Such as?

    And if you still don't think that that makes sense and is true try proving to me how you know the big bang occured according to you guys you must have been nothing at the time.
    We don't know why the big bang happened, nor do we know conclusively that that's what happened - but evidence points strongly in favour of it and the why cannot just be filled in with "god".

    If you want to know that God exsists I can prove it to you practically, on a stormy day, when there is really a bad storm go out into the ocean and wait right to moment when you're about to die, if you survive this and come back saying that you called on nothing for help then you're probably lying.
    Since when was someone calling out for help proof of god?
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    (Original post by Kabadakari Kabara)
    You can clearly see all the different things that do prove that he exists.
    Just like to point something out.

    Let's assume God exists, as the creator of our universe. He is worshipped by people.
    He then sends down a vessel of his own spirit to Earth to enforce this worship and faith.
    Thus it is made clear that God relies on worship and faith, for that is what religion is, for the most part.
    If God relies on faith, he can sort the faithful from the non-believers, for the faithful, when presented with evidence of his nonexistence, would remain faithful. Elsewise, he would have no followers, no faithful, and would not exist.
    Therefore, God would never plant evidence or allow mankind to have any form of solid evidence that he exists.

    It's from HGTTG for those who are wondering.
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    (Original post by miser)
    My definition of omnipotent is the same as anyone's - Google puts it to be "Having unlimited power; able to do anything." I find it absurd the idea that there would be a God that is being blackmailed into sending us hurricanes.

    If he's powerless to help us or just doesn't care to, then it's as Epicurus said: why bother to even call him God?
    Well then, your definition isn't the same as everyone's, as there are people who put forth the definition I stated of omnipotence being bound by logic.

    Who said anything about God being blackmailed?

    Because, as Epicurus misses out, those things do not stop God from being a god, just from being the god we'd like. Moreover, Epicurus' argument presumes there is no good reason for natural disasters, etc., which assumes that we, as humans, know better than God. Argument from arrogance, really.
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    (Original post by Alofleicester)
    Because air is observable, both in it's effects on other things and if you run it through a mass spec machine (like a breathalyser) you can measure it's contents - neither is true of God.


    Such as?


    We don't know why the big bang happened, nor do we know conclusively that that's what happened - but evidence points strongly in favour of it and the why cannot just be filled in with "god".


    Since when was someone calling out for help proof of god?
    check this and you'll answer yourself
    http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/thinkaboutit.php
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    (Original post by Alofleicester)
    Because air is observable, both in it's effects on other things and if you run it through a mass spec machine (like a breathalyser) you can measure it's contents - neither is true of God.
    You can clearly observe the effects of God's existence. A couple of years ago such equipment to measure air did not exist and there still remains no such machinery that can measure other things like: instinct, intuition, values, conscious logic, judgment and the value of friends. Before if you would have told someone that you can measure air they wouldn't have believed you; maybe our race hasn't reached the point yet where they can invent something capable of containing greater matter.

    (Original post by Alofleicester)
    Such as?
    You have stated that God's affects cannot be seen while I think that others have grown tired of listing many of them over and over again. I will give you some examples though. We can infer what might be true about God from what we observe in the universe. We look at the physical universe, human nature and culture and we observe things which may be clues to the existence or nature of the supernatural. God may have entered the Universe and told us true things about himself, morality, meaning and how to have a relationship with him. This is called Revelation, given to us through his prophets.

    (Original post by Alofleicester)
    We don't know why the big bang happened, nor do we know conclusively that that's what happened - but evidence points strongly in favour of it and the why cannot just be filled in with "god"
    The existence of the universe is better explained by the existence of God. Why? Here it is:
    1. There are things which come into existence.
    2.Everything which comes into existence is caused to exist by something else.It is obvious that Nothing can cause itself to come into existence.
    3.There cannot be an infinite series of past causes. Can the universe have an infinite past? The answer is that it cannot. First, there are philosophical reasons to think the past cannot be infinite. Second, there are scientific reasons which support this view.
    4.Therefore, there exists a first cause which did not come into existence. In other words, the first cause always existed.
    I am interested, however, in knowing with what are you going to fill this why? and what "evidence points" are those that are "strongly in favour of it"?

    (Original post by Alofleicester)
    Since when was someone calling out for help proof of god?
    Deep within us is the recognition that there is something beyond this life and someone beyond this world. As instinct and unconsciously when a human being feels that he is alone and that there are no means of help and salvation he calls upon a power that is greater than anything else and his heart turns to God wither he acknowledged his existence before the moment or not.

    - I suggest you read this story as well:

    The professor of a university challenged his students with this question. "Did God create everything that exists?" A student answered bravely, "Yes, he did".

    The professor then asked, "If God created everything, then he created evil. Since evil exists (as noticed by our own actions), so God is evil. The student couldn't respond to that statement causing the professor to conclude that he had "proved" that "belief in God" was a fairy tale, and therefore worthless.

    Another student raised his hand and asked the professor, "May I pose a question? " "Of course" answered the professor.

    The young student stood up and asked : "Professor does Cold exists?"

    The professor answered, "What kind of question is that? ...Of course the cold exists... haven't you ever been cold?"

    The young student answered, "In fact sir, Cold does not exist. According to the laws of Physics, what we consider cold, in fact is the absence of heat. Anything is able to be studied as long as it transmits energy (heat). Absolute Zero is the total absence of heat, but cold does not exist. What we have done is create a term to describe how we feel if we don't have body heat or we are not hot."

    "And, does Dark exist?", he continued. The professor answered "Of course". This time the student responded, "Again you're wrong, Sir. Darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in fact simply the absence of light. Light can be studied, darkness can not. Darkness cannot be broken down. A simple ray of light tears the darkness and illuminates the surface where the light beam finishes. Dark is a term that we humans have created to describe what happens when there's lack of light."

    Finally, the student asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?" The professor replied, "Of course it exists, as I mentioned at the beginning, we see violations, crimes and violence anywhere in the world, and those things are evil."

    The student responded, "Sir, Evil does not exist. Just as in the previous cases, Evil is a term which man has created to describe the result of the absence of God's presence in the hearts of man."
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    (Original post by Kabadakari Kabara)

    - I suggest you read this story as well:

    The professor of a university challenged his students with this question. "Did God create everything that exists?" A student answered bravely, "Yes, he did".

    The professor then asked, "If God created everything, then he created evil. Since evil exists (as noticed by our own actions), so God is evil. The student couldn't respond to that statement causing the professor to conclude that he had "proved" that "belief in God" was a fairy tale, and therefore worthless.

    Another student raised his hand and asked the professor, "May I pose a question? " "Of course" answered the professor.

    The young student stood up and asked : "Professor does Cold exists?"

    The professor answered, "What kind of question is that? ...Of course the cold exists... haven't you ever been cold?"

    The young student answered, "In fact sir, Cold does not exist. According to the laws of Physics, what we consider cold, in fact is the absence of heat. Anything is able to be studied as long as it transmits energy (heat). Absolute Zero is the total absence of heat, but cold does not exist. What we have done is create a term to describe how we feel if we don't have body heat or we are not hot."

    "And, does Dark exist?", he continued. The professor answered "Of course". This time the student responded, "Again you're wrong, Sir. Darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in fact simply the absence of light. Light can be studied, darkness can not. Darkness cannot be broken down. A simple ray of light tears the darkness and illuminates the surface where the light beam finishes. Dark is a term that we humans have created to describe what happens when there's lack of light."

    Finally, the student asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?" The professor replied, "Of course it exists, as I mentioned at the beginning, we see violations, crimes and violence anywhere in the world, and those things are evil."

    The student responded, "Sir, Evil does not exist. Just as in the previous cases, Evil is a term which man has created to describe the result of the absence of God's presence in the hearts of man."
    I've seen the theistic lobby throw this anecdote all over facebook and it's boring me greatly. I've seen more coherent attacks on the atheist position on the back of penguin wrappers. You've redefined a term you invented -- "evil" -- to escape the point being made. The professor was making the point that bad, or evil, things happen. I very much doubt that any professor would claim to have "proved" that god does not exist, but ignoring the theistic strawman here the argument in question begins with an observation that bad things happen in a world created and controlled by an omnipotent being, and that point remains notwithstanding any smart alec student's semantic acrobatics.

    I'll respond to the rest of this tomorrow when I'm not almost asleep.
Updated: August 21, 2012
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