[BJack]

(Original post by Stalin)
If God created Adam and Eve, and they had Cain and Abel, with whom did Cain and Abel create children? In other words, how did Adam and Eve's kids have kids?

Cain and Abel weren't their only children. Seth is also mentioned by name (admittedly not very useful from a reproductive point of view, as far as your question is concerned) and furthermore: "After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters." (Genesis 5:4, NIV)

[Stalin]

(Original post by BJack)
Cain and Abel weren't their only children. Seth is also mentioned by name (admittedly not very useful from a reproductive point of view, as far as your question is concerned) and furthermore: "After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters." (Genesis 5:4, NIV)

So, basically, Cain and Abel screwed Eve - is that not morally wrong?

[BJack]

(Original post by Stalin)
So, basically, Cain and Abel screwed Eve - is that not morally wrong?

Or their sisters. Either way, it was inevitably going to get rather incestuous with such a restricted gene pool.

[Stalin]

(Original post by BJack)
Or their sisters. Either way, it was inevitably going to get rather incestuous with such a restricted gene pool.

Cain, Abel and Seth are Adam and Eve's only children - how did their sisters come into the equation?

[KasanDude]

(Original post by PhilipMiti)
But precisely, you consider this evil but is it actually Evil? You haveno moral standpoint of which to call this evil. (this doesn't mean you don't have morals by the way) Here's what i mean. How can you tell what wonky line is if you don't know what a straight line is. Without God there is not Objective Right or Wrong. If God doesn't exist evil can't exist. Because God is the Standard of GOOD with which we can call things Evil. without the standard of absolute Good there can only be subjective right or wrong. For example, you think something is "evil" because of Society. It's all social relativism. To a Nazi, the killing of those Jews was not evil. Because there was no absolute right or wrong. Due to social relativism, aka, the absence of absolute right/wrong, society can only say thing's like murder are wrong in comparison to relative society. So murder can't be "Evil" per se. Merely undesirable.

- If God did not exist, then objective moral values would not exist.

- Evil exists.

- Therefore, objective moral values exist.

- Therefore, God exists.

God must exist for EVIL to exist. otherwise you must not believe in evil. If you don't believe in evil, then you may still have an argument for god not to exist. so your question should really be, If god exists, why do undesirable things happen?

Good and evil is an abstract concept that does require religion. Sure, god is seen as good and satan is seen as evil, but those entities are not required for the understanding of good and evil.

I mean, good and evil existed long before christianity came to be.

I also believe that on their own, people are capable of identifying what is moral or immoral. Though morals are subjective, changing as society does, things like killing innocent people who you have to quarrel with, especially based on what religion they belong to, ranked consistently high on the list of evil things throughout humankind's history.

[KasanDude]

(Original post by london_toon)
i can see why people feel this way but not everything is black and white, meaning theres a reason for everything that happens, if God lets you die (which is not always a bad thing) then theres a reason for it. If a murderer murders you, you will die, you see it as a bad thing, but when you are murdered your sins are wiped away (i think, i need to re-check ), this is a good thing. For instance people that live a horrible life, that are struggling constantly but still hold their faith in God then in their afterlife they will be rewarded for that struggle. And as for those murderers, rapists and criminals they chose to be like that, they may get further punished when they die.

Philosophically:

If there is a god and he allows people I care about to be murdered, then he is not worth believing in. If there is some devine plan afoot, life on earth is completely meaningless, as there is no free will thus no point carrying on a predetermined existance.

Realistically:

Even if hitler suffered the most severe of punishments in the afterlife, it still would not be adequet for the millions he caused to die. The fact that the families and friends of the victims endured those losses is absolutely unforgivable. No amount of compensation in heaven, were there such a thing, could make the pain they felt acceptable. Hence, god doesn't exist.

[BJack]

(Original post by Stalin)
Cain, Abel and Seth are Adam and Eve's only children - how did their sisters come into the equation?

Did you read my post? After Seth, Adam had other sons and daughters.

[london_toon]

(Original post by KasanDude)
Philosophically:

If there is a god and he allows people I care about to be murdered, then he is not worth believing in. If there is some devine plan afoot, life on earth is completely meaningless, as there is no free will thus no point carrying on a predetermined existance.

Realistically:

Even if hitler suffered the most severe of punishments in the afterlife, it still would not be adequet for the millions he caused to die. The fact that the families and friends of the victims endured those losses is absolutely unforgivable. No amount of compensation in heaven, were there such a thing, could make the pain they felt acceptable. Hence, god doesn't exist.

well hell is no laughing matter, the stuff that will happen there are more horrible than we can imagine..not a nice place at all. Also i think the problem is people are too focused on whats happening right now, life on earth isnt meaningless, God gives you things to do, get a job, have a family, kids etc, but whilst doing that you need to remember that this life is a test, the better you do (morally good, kind, helpfull) the better your after life will be. life isnt meant to be a simple, jolly thing, you will face hardship and struggle but at the end of the day if you stay on the right path than you have nothing to worry about.

[King Kebab]

No, I don't think so.

[Politricks]

If god exists, which god would it be? Why would it be Jesus? How do you know it isn't the Zoroastrian god, Ahura Mazda? How do you know it isn't Krishna?

[just george]

(Original post by london_toon)
well hell is no laughing matter, the stuff that will happen there are more horrible than we can imagine..not a nice place at all. Also i think the problem is people are too focused on whats happening right now, life on earth isnt meaningless, God gives you things to do, get a job, have a family, kids etc, but whilst doing that you need to remember that this life is a test, the better you do (morally good, kind, helpfull) the better your after life will be. life isnt meant to be a simple, jolly thing, you will face hardship and struggle but at the end of the day if you stay on the right path than you have nothing to worry about.

So do you only lead a good life because of the threat of hell? :L I think it is important to focus on what's happening right now and enjoy life to the full.. If there is an afterlife then great, and if there isn't, then at least you've had a good life - why waste time focussing on something you don't know exists when you could focus on something that definitely does

[Sholto]

If some deity wanted us to be good and moral, why not create us that way? Why test us in a game, in which losing means an eternity of damnation? This concept of punishment sounds very unfun.

[london_toon]

(Original post by just george)
So do you only lead a good life because of the threat of hell? :L I think it is important to focus on what's happening right now and enjoy life to the full.. If there is an afterlife then great, and if there isn't, then at least you've had a good life - why waste time focussing on something you don't know exists when you could focus on something that definitely does

Yeah i try to lead a good, honest life the best way i can. The threat of hell is real and i believe in the afterlife therefore i will do my very best not to end up ruining my chances. No ones saying not to 'enjoy life to the full', you can enjoy life to the full but still follow your religion.

[Keckers]

(Original post by london_toon)
Yeah i try to lead a good, honest life the best way i can. The threat of hell is real and i believe in the afterlife therefore i will do my very best not to end up ruining my chances. No ones saying not to 'enjoy life to the full', you can enjoy life to the full but still follow your religion.

Where exactly (apart from dramatic paintings from 500 years ago) is hell specified to be full of fire and brimstone? It was my understanding that the concept of hell is simply absence of God.

[heyhey922]

(Original post by PhilipMiti)
- If God did not exist, then objective moral values would not exist.

What about the fact that the church has changed it's mind on all sorts of things like slavery, killing gays, divorce, condoms, women's rights etc

[Venomilys]

(Original post by Sholto)
If some deity wanted us to be good and moral, why not create us that way? Why test us in a game, in which losing means an eternity of damnation? This concept of punishment sounds very unfun.

Pretty much this. Personally I think he's having a good old lol.

[Hylean]

(Original post by Sholto)
If some deity wanted us to be good and moral, why not create us that way? Why test us in a game, in which losing means an eternity of damnation? This concept of punishment sounds very unfun.

Because, if the Abrahamic God is the right one, then that god wants us to come to Him willingly. Being programmed to wouldn't be the same.

[garfeeled]

(Original post by Hylean)
Because, if the Abrahamic God is the right one, then that god wants us to come to Him willingly. Being programmed to wouldn't be the same.

assuming he is perfect e would have no wants or needs so would thus not only would he not want or need us to come to him and he would also not want to or need to create us

[Hylean]

(Original post by garfeeled)
assuming he is perfect e would have no wants or needs so would thus not only would he not want or need us to come to him and he would also not want to or need to create us

Not really sure how that follows.

[Cringe]

the fact that tsr is flooded with : does god exist questions shows people have a feeling that their is a higher power. there has always been that feeling in every life time. atheists now are only a bit more conceited because humans have become a bit smarter, but we still dont know anything and the question what created the big bang doesnt make sense. most people are happy to continue living in ignorance and taking everything they have for granted