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In some respects, is the UK the most powerful country in Europe?

TheMeister

Do some people not even realise that the U.S. just uses Britain? Or are we really naive enough to think of them as our ally? Either way, it's incomprehensibly silly.

I don't really understand that logic... What use would Britain actually be? Two is hardly a deciding voting bloc on the UNSC, and they have much of the rest of Europe to use as a missile shield against Russia. I don't see how the UK benefits the US enough to ever be thought to be being regularly taken advantage-of by it.

Reply 81

Tory Dan

11

Iago

Russia would absoloutely wipe the floor with us in a fight, discouting foreign intervention.

There is absoloutely no reasonable interpretation of 'conventionally weak' that makes it into a fair adjective for Russia's military capabilities.

Nonsense, the Russian military is outdated and underfunded. It has an excellent military-industrial complex but the Ministry doesn't buy all the new shiney equipment. As displayed in the Georgian conflict the Russian military hasn't kept up with Western trends at all. They lack precision munitions, artillery locating radar, recon assets, UAV's the list is endless.

Reply 82

TI-84

18

CondensedMilk

Hmm... culturally most powerful seems a feasible suggestion.

this.
OP how can you truly think the UK is culturally the most powerful country in the UK?
I'd rate it amongst the bottom 5.
Now if you say historically, then I can see where your coming from.

Reply 83

rajandkwameali

OP

2

TheMeister

Do some people not even realise that the U.S. just uses Britain? Or are we really naive enough to think of them as our ally? Either way, it's incomprehensibly silly.

it's not a relationship of equals, and we care about it more than they do. I never heard Obama, McCain, Clinton or any other major candidate since the start of the primaries to say that a strong relationship with the UK is a top priority.

the british should face it and see that Americans don't value their relationship with us and much as we value ours with them.

Reply 84

Collingwood

15

The only real contenders to be 'better' than Britain are:

Germany

France

Russia

All of these have serious problems. Germany is still 'reunifying', it actually has a lot more people than us, so it's unsurprising it's richer. However its military has little power projection capability. It has no carriers or amphibious landing craft. All it can do is fly troops somewhere that one of its allies has already gone. Also not a nuclear power, so pretty much out of the Great Power arena.

Russia is actually poorer than the UK despite being enormous, and that's mostly oil which has gone down the drain now (and it has to sell to Europe... bit a problem with attacking us). It's a corrupt place with spurious long term growth prospects. Again, it can't project power much. It can move ships back and forth to friendly ports - mostly third world pariah states that cant buy guns from a reputable European or North American source - except when they break down, when it can't. Which is much of the time. Russia can exert a considerable degree of power over her immediate neighbours, but who are they? Except for China, who have made clear they won't be bullied by Russia, you have a bunch of third world ex-Soviet satellites mostly. Hardly worth bothering with. Would the Russian army beat ours if it came swarming over the Channel? Probably, but that's been irrelevent since we got Trident.

France is the only serious competitor here, I think. Slightly poorer than us, but roughly the same. She has a fleet carrier whereas we dont. On the other hand, it breaks down all the time, and as she only has one there are no useable carriers in the MN when it's under repair (which is often). She has fairly good projection capabilities though, about equal to ours. Ours will be better in 2015 (supposedly) but between now and then France probably will overtake us as we retire a lot of our Navy without (immediate) replacement. But then, as has been said, France doesn't have sway in the right places - mostly her old colonies, which are poor bits of Africa - rather than the USA, AusNZ, Canada, India, the Middle East &c.

Reply 85

CurlyBen

19

Collingwood

She has a fleet carrier whereas we dont.

Debatable really, as they can't get a full crew together for it and she's not been to sea since the end of 2007!

Reply 86

Iago

1

Tory Dan

Nonsense, the Russian military is outdated and underfunded. It has an excellent military-industrial complex but the Ministry doesn't buy all the new shiney equipment. As displayed in the Georgian conflict the Russian military hasn't kept up with Western trends at all. They lack precision munitions, artillery locating radar, recon assets, UAV's the list is endless.

Outdated and underfunded does not equal 'weak'. I totally agree that our military is shinier and newer and fancier than Russia's.

But the same applies to China and they would kill us in a fight too. Beyond a certain point these things can become a game of numbers and resources - on both points Russia and China dwarf us.

Reply 87

Tory Dan

11

Iago

Outdated and underfunded does not equal 'weak'. I totally agree that our military is shinier and newer and fancier than Russia's.

But the same applies to China and they would kill us in a fight too. Beyond a certain point these things can become a game of numbers and resources - on both points Russia and China dwarf us.

If your talking about like an example of raw numbers and units on the field then Russia or China can put more tanks on their side yes compared to Britain or the US. This type of warfare though is obsolete with the advent of air power and tactical nuclear weaponry.

Reply 88

kjc_us

14

Tory Dan

Of course Britain has culture, look at our art galleries, stately homes, museums of science and history.

... so the same as every other country then?

Reply 89

Titanomachy

13

Why is anybody equating military strength with power in European politics?

Reply 90

1721

14

we have the least sucess in the eurovision contest and thats all that counts really.

Reply 91

emmalouiseyyy

9

haha, like Westminster would allow the Scots their own army!!

ahh typical..

Reply 92

Iago

1

Tory Dan

If your talking about like an example of raw numbers and units on the field then Russia or China can put more tanks on their side yes compared to Britain or the US. This type of warfare though is obsolete with the advent of air power and tactical nuclear weaponry.

Aeroplanes and nukes. Of which Russia again has plenty more than us.

Isee your point about the nature of warfare being far less about sheer red alert style size than it used to be...but this is as much thanks to the geopolitical situation as it is the inherent nature of warfare with current technology. In the hypothetical situation of total war between Russia and the UK, with foreign intervention discounted, the style of war would be much more WWIIish (discounting nukes) than you imagine.

For example, I imagine that tanks might just come in handy when attempting to subjugate Russian territory.

Reply 93

No Longer_Active

emmalouiseyyy

ahh typical..

??

Reply 94

jammythedodger

12

rajandkwameali

Certainly not in an economic sense (Germany) or military sense (Russia, France), but culturally or diplomatically is the UK still the most powerful country in Europe?

I think Britain has more prominent cultural figures (whether writers, actors, singers, etc.) than other European countries do. France also has a permanent seat on the UN Security Council, but France has no organisation that is as extensive as the Commonwealth is. No former French colonies are also first world and have comparable standards of living to France (like Canada, Australia, and New Zealand do to the UK).

What say you?

I really dont like including Russia into the whole thing, cause everything geets skewed because of its size.

However, I would put the UK just ahead of France in military terms though, simply because no European power has the navy we have, or the air force we have... although our army is quite small.
Also the French have a tactical/strategic problem in that they only have one carrier... we have 3, which makes us A LOT more flexible.

Thing is language is a major party, because most of the leading economies globally speak English, if not as a first, then second language. French is popular, but due to history (whole commonwealth) and the USA, English is far more important as an international language.

Diplomatically aswell.

The German economy is better than ours simply becuase they have more people, although they are more efficient than us.

All in all though, due to globalisation.. I think we can say theyre are basically 3 equal powers in Europe: UK, France & Germany.

Reply 95

Iago

1

Pretty much what he said, although this economic transformation might leave us behind those two. Our economy is worse than France's now that London's financial services sector has imploded.

Reply 96

Psyk

16

emmalouiseyyy

ahh typical..

Well what would be the point in Scotland having it's own military, given that it's part of the UK? It seems more effective to have a single military force responsible for defense of the whole island rather than separate forces defending separate bits. Although these days we don't really have a military for defending ourselves, it's more for attacking others.

Reply 97

London271

13

I think the UK is a very starnge country. Although we are European, I don't really feel European. (I know it sounds stupid) I feel that our culture is a lot similar to that of the US, Canada, Australia & New Zealand. when I think of Europeans I think of the typical "European Culture" which is different to ours. Maybe we should just be a new addition to the American or Candidan States! LOL! (2000 mils away?)

Ok, I have got off point now. um, yeah I would say we are the most powerful country in Europe.

Reply 98

No Longer_Active

Shelly from London

with religion

are you joking? more like, America have us

Or perhaps by someone who is eager to participate in a friendly debate, posting quickly on an internet forum. Give the guy a break, he clearly knows the difference.

:biggrin:

haha, like Westminster would allow the Scots their own army!!