I am a Chinese born and living in Germany. Now, I am attending the 12th grade of the German Sixth Form. My dream is to get a undergraduate study place for computer science either at Cambridge or Oxford.
I've already checked out the website of Oxford University very intimately, but I still have some unanswered questions:
1. Which university do you think is harder to get in? (Unfortunately UCAS only allows to apply to one of these two at the same time, so I have to choose the one, where I have more certitude to get in.) I think that Oxford might be a little easier, because Cambridge requires at least 1.3, Oxford "only" 1.5 in the German Abitur, but I am not very sure.
I am tended to apply to Oxford, so I will mainly talk/ask about Oxford in the following:
2. On the Oxford websites it says, that Oxford won't ask you tricky questions in the interview. But there are so many people saying, that Oxford do will ask you very difficult/weird questions. Some chinese books even listed some examples, e.g.: "If somebody knock against a street lamp, in which way does this affect the society?" (Politics and Management).
I don't have any imagination what questions I can be possibly asked in the interview. I have checked out the website of the CompuLab of Oxford. There is this presentation of "Finding the shortest route". Will I have to solve a problem similar to this one, or what questions will I be asked (as I've said, I will apply for computer science)?
3. Of course I want to be well prepared, but I don't know on what I have to focus on. There are so many different information. For example, sometimes it is said, that it is good to participate in extracurricular activities, but sometimes it is said that there are not very much advantages. I already do very much for my application to Oxford, it starts from studying for AAA over general knowledge to extracurricular activties. But I am still not sure whether I do enough; how had you prepared for Oxford?
3.a) There is one more thing, which is very confusing to me: On one hand Oxford says that it likes to see the applicants' interests for the subject they have applied for in their activities outside from school. So, I do a lot for computer science in my free time (and it's more than only writing in HTML ^^ It is more about telecommunications networks, programming [modularity, AOP etc.], now I try to get into some micro programming...) But on other hand, somewhere on Oxford's website it says, that there won't be real advantages if you already have knowledge in the subject you have applied for, in my case that would be computer science. Does it mean, that it is useless that I, for example, achieve an A+ in computer science?And, are the maths skills of a computer science applicant really so important to Oxford, even more important than the "computer skills"? I am not bad in maths (I got an A in A-Level maths), but I am not that good in solving riddles. Do I need to be? Is it enough if I am good in logical and analyzing thinking, and having an overview of/creating assocations between problems and its solutions? How important is participation in competitions? And if yes, what is more helpful: Maths competitions or computer competitions?
3.b) Is it advantageous too have many other interests and skills beside the subject I have applied for? Are extracurricular activities helpful, if they show my social skills?
4. The next thing is, that Oxford always emphasize their focus on each student's individuality during the selection process. Then, just a scenario: If my personal statement is accepted, and the interview was successfull, but unfortunately I only achieved a BBB in the Abitur, will I still be offered a study place?
5. Which college of Oxford University do you think is best for computer science? There are many colleges I like, but my very favorite is the Keble college. What are your opinions?
6. How advantageous is studying at co-educational colleges such as Malvern college? Just today I read some reports about the educational circumstances at those schools - circumstances I only can dream of. But isn't it a bit unfair for those pupils who have not rich parents?
I am especially adressing to those board members, who have already succeeded in applying to Oxford or Cambridge, and if he or she is a computer science undergraduate, then that would be perfect.
I know that these are very many questions, but I tried to structure them a bit and hope that you will answer me nevertheless. I really need your help. Thank you in advance！
I am a Chinese born and living in Germany. Now, I am attending the 12th grade of the German Sixth Form. My dream is to get a undergraduate study place for computer science either at Cambridge or Oxford.
I've already checked out the website of Oxford University very intimately, but I still have some unanswered questions:
1. Which university do you think is harder to get in? (Unfortunately UCAS only allows to apply to one of these two at the same time, so I have to choose the one, where I have more certitude to get in.) I think that Oxford might be a little easier, because Cambridge requires at least 1.3, Oxford "only" 1.5 in the German Abitur, but I am not very sure.
In generally neither is significantly more competitive at admissions. If there's a risk you might miss your offer if it's the higher one, that's a consideration, but otherwise no.
2. On the Oxford websites it says, that Oxford won't ask you tricky questions in the interview. But there are so many people saying, that Oxford do will ask you very difficult/weird questions. Some chinese books even listed some examples, e.g.: "If somebody knock against a street lamp, in which way does this affect the society?" (Politics and Management).
The "wacky Oxford questions!" tend to be much less wacky in context. I'd not worry about this, they aren't looking to catch you out!
I don't have any imagination what questions I can be possibly asked in the interview. I have checked out the website of the CompuLab of Oxford. There is this presentation of "Finding the shortest route". Will I have to solve a problem similar to this one, or what questions will I be asked (as I've said, I will apply for computer science)?
You will be asked questions appropriate to a clever high-school student who is interested in their subject. Generally they will respond to what you say rather than rigidly following a script.
3. Of course I want to be well prepared, but I don't know on what I have to focus on. There are so many different information. For example, sometimes it is said, that it is good to participate in extracurricular activities, but sometimes it is said that there are not very much advantages. I already do very much for my application to Oxford, it starts from studying for AAA over general knowledge to extracurricular activties. But I am still not sure whether I do enough; how had you prepared for Oxford?
Extra-curricular activities not related to your subject aren't particularly important.
3.a) There is one more thing, which is very confusing to me: On one hand Oxford says that it likes to see the applicants' interests for the subject they have applied for in their activities outside from school. So, I do a lot for computer science in my free time (and it's more than only writing in HTML ^^ It is more about telecommunications networks, programming [modularity, AOP etc.], now I try to get into some micro programming...) But on other hand, somewhere on Oxford's website it says, that there won't be real advantages if you already have knowledge in the subject you have applied for, in my case that would be computer science. Does it mean, that it is useless that I, for example, achieve an A+ in computer science?And, are the maths skills of a computer science applicant really so important to Oxford, even more important than the "computer skills"? I am not bad in maths (I got an A in A-Level maths), but I am not that good in solving riddles. Do I need to be? Is it enough if I am good in logical and analyzing thinking, and having an overview of/creating assocations between problems and its solutions? How important is participation in competitions? And if yes, what is more helpful: Maths competitions or computer competitions?
Bit subject-specific for me to give you a good answer. They don't expect people already to have degree-level knowledge of their subject. But participation in subject-related activities beyond the necessary at school shows aptitude and enthusiasm, which are key qualities.
3.b) Is it advantageous too have many other interests and skills beside the subject I have applied for? Are extracurricular activities helpful, if they show my social skills?
CompScis don't need social skills.
Serious answer: extra skills and activities generally come a distant second to academic potential and interest in the subject.
4. The next thing is, that Oxford always emphasize their focus on each student's individuality during the selection process. Then, just a scenario: If my personal statement is accepted, and the interview was successfull, but unfortunately I only achieved a BBB in the Abitur, will I still be offered a study place?
If you are made a conditional offer, you need to meet it to take up your place - it is unusual for exceptions to be made.
5. Which college of Oxford University do you think is best for computer science? There are many colleges I like, but my very favorite is the Keble college. What are your opinions?
There is no "best" college for any subject, and for the sciences most teaching is central and the same for everyone studying that subject. If you like Keble best, apply there.
6. How advantageous is studying at co-educational colleges such as Malvern college? Just today I read some reports about the educational circumstances at those schools - circumstances I only can dream of. But isn't it a bit unfair for those pupils who have not rich parents?
Wealthy private schools are statistically good at getting pupils into university (not just Oxford\Cambridge, despite the disproportionate focus they get). Admissions bend over backwards to admit candidates on the basis of their underlying potential, but the bottom line is that people at good schools are disproportionately likely to be predicted good grades and able to apply in the first place.
About Oxford/Cambridge and which is easier to get into...You'll need predicted grades for your application (which you usually don't get at German schools, so you'll more or less have to predict yourself because your subject teachers won't know what average you can get). If your predicted grades aren't what Cambridge usually wants (1.3 or better) then I'd apply to Oxford. I know people who got an outright rejection from Cambridge because they had like 1.5 in their Abitur...
As others have said before, extra curriculars that don't relate to your subjects are not important at all.
Oh and think carefully about who writes your reference. If there is a teacher at your school who actually knows what UCAS is and what a reference is supposed to look like, choose him/her. When I applied to Oxford last year my reference was badly written and my teacher had never heard of UCAS in his life. This time around my reference is much better...
Hello you guys, thx for the answers. They helped me a lot.
Further answers are welcome.
@frederizia
What kind of reference is it? I haven't read about it on Oxford's website, so I am quite surprised now. Does i have to be a teacher of mine, or can it be every teacher of my school? So, you appliead for 2009?
Hello you guys, thx for the answers. They helped me a lot.
Further answers are welcome.
@frederizia What kind of reference is it? I haven't read about it on Oxford's website, so I am quite surprised now. Does i have to be a teacher of mine, or can it be every teacher of my school? So, you appliead for 2009?
Cheers, Jimmy
The UCAS reference. It doesn't *have* to be written by one of your teachers, but since they're the ones most likely to know you and be in a position to comment on your academic performance / potential, it would probably make sense to ask a teacher. It could be a teacher who knows you well but isn't currently teaching you, though, if that's what you mean.
@frederizia
What kind of reference is it? I haven't read about it on Oxford's website, so I am quite surprised now. Does i have to be a teacher of mine, or can it be every teacher of my school? So, you appliead for 2009?
Cheers, Jimmy
I applied to Oxford last year and Cambridge, Durham, and UCL this year..Oxford invited me for interview with a 1.4-1.6 prediction, just FYI. I ended up having 1.2 though (currently on a gap year...).
First time around my English teacher wrote my reference. Second time around my Physics teacher did with some help translating everything, obviously. It's always easier to get someone who speaks English very well to write it but do choose someone who really knows you as a student. I felt like my Physics teacher was the only teacher to really "get" how he had to teach me and how I worked (he was great at motivating me).
When my sister applied (umm 3 years ago, I think, and she didn't apply to Oxbridge) her English LK teacher wrote her reference and it was really good. But it's hard to know before you actually read it.
don't worry about unrelated extra curricular activities- they count for very little- however, if you get a chance to enter stuff like the british informatics olympiad (well, the german equivilent i mean) then that'll be more useful but otherwise don't worry too much.
Both oxford and cambridge place a strong emphthasis on mathematical ability- so doing lots of maths can only help. They don't expect you to have much/any 'computer skillz' when you start the course, mainly because the computing courses in british schools generally don't bear any relation to anything you do on a computer science degree at decent universities.
As for college choice, i think probably the most important thing to consider is their intake for computer science- it doesn't matter which college you apply to in terms of likelyhood of admission, but think about whether you want to have many people doing compsci in your year, or would be happy with just one or two others in your year. Keble has quite a few each year.
Interviews generally involve problem solving questions- often coming up with sensible algorithms for solving a certain problem (my interview had a question about finding the smallest/largest number in an ordered grid of numbers). The questions won't be easy, but they won't be completely bizarre like some of the questions you'll no doubt hear in the media (which are taken out of context). Also which school you went to really doesn't make a difference- if you can afford to go to a private school and think you'd enjoy it, by all means- you'll probably get more support and guidance about applying to UK universities than in a german school, however, many german students get in every year so it's not necessary to spend so much money.
It could be a teacher who knows you well but isn't currently teaching you, though, if that's what you mean.
Yes, that was my question.
@frederizia
May I ask you for the reason why you didn't succeed at Oxford in the end? Is it okay, if a teacher writes this reference for me, who knows me as a student very well but have bad English skills, and then I look for someone else to translate it?
@thomasjtl
Thank you for your reply.
I can understand that they don't consider any ComSci-knowledge of applicants, but my point of view is, if I do a lot for ComputerScience in my spare time (even it's not necessarely pariticipation in competitions), then it shows my real interest for this subject, doesn't it? And isn't that actually what Oxford wants to see? What do you think?
So, do you mean by "so doing lots of maths can only help.", that I have to be good in solving riddles, or is it more about being good in what one learns at school?
How did you prepare for your application for computer science to Oxford?
Oh, and was your PS only about you-and-ComputerScience then? (Because everybody here says that skills beside the subject doesn't count much.)
Your personal statement is primarily why you want to study CS, how you are suited to the course, what you've studied so far that's relevant, and then a little (~30%) on extra-curriculars - what you do outside school that makes you a high-flying, well-rounded individual who manages their time successfully.
@frederizia
May I ask you for the reason why you didn't succeed at Oxford in the end? Is it okay, if a teacher writes this reference for me, who knows me as a student very well but have bad English skills, and then I look for someone else to translate it?
Don't ask me why. I never got feedback because I didn't want my teacher to read it and they only send it to institutions. I guess it was partly because I ddn't do Biology which is quite important for the course, my predicted grades weren't as good as I ended up getting and I said some weird things in my interviews...
I'm pretty sure that's ok. If you could only take someone who is fluent in English, there wouldn't be much choice. I think I've actually heard of someone who had different teachers write the reference and one teacher translated and summarized it all...Not sure if there are any guidelines regarding this but it's just a translation...
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