Has Israel forfeited its right to exist?

Poll

Has the state of Israel forfeited its right to exist?

Given its wanton aggression, has the state of Israel forfeited its right to exist? My opinion is that there is no right to exist in international affairs, though sovereignty is a normative principle that can be upheld through cooperation and international organizations and law. Because Israel has shown utter contempt toward the views of the international community and its normative standards, along with complete disregard for humanity in general, it does not deserve the protection rightly afforded to good international actors. It is a outlaw state and should be censured.

Reply 1

ice_dragoness274

12

israel has indeed been proven to go against many accounts of UN Human Rights sanctions. Their weak argument, and disproportionate retaliations to a conflict in which they are the agressors, makes them even less justifiable.
The current ongoing conflict is really not helped by Israe's blockading and violation of human rights. For anyone still thinking they're 100 % innocent? Please look at this ,,,,http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/oc...unhc-o17.shtml and this http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?o...FRU6EAodqGuYDg

Reply 2

PeanutButterJellyTime

Sort Of.

If a country gave up its right to exist people they were violent then there would be no countries left in the world

Reply 4

PeeWeeDan

15

No. Although this poll proves the point of what I posted earlier

PeeWeeDan

Every time Israel takes any attack in the Gaza strip these discussions come up and they end up as an Israel-hatefest filled with people who come in and post one ignorant thing then leave. I notice none of them suggest something better that Israel could do to defend it's people. They would rather Israel roll over and die. What can I say to convince them we're not evil when they are convinced we deserve to die because their warped perception of what our grandparents. You hear things like "you invaded their country!" and "You stole Palestinian land!" or "You killed 6 million Palestinians!" "You're as bad as the Nazis!" which are all of course ridiculous... and eventually I just can't be bothered to correct the misconceptions... what does it matter anyway?

Reply 5

Sync

14

Why should they have to fall into line with the international community's view? Why should they answer to anyone but their own people? Irrespective of the views of the international community at large, they have the USA's backing and always will - so this is kind of a moot point. Besides, most of your initial post is conjecture and opinion, which no international community will act on.

Reply 6

superstoke

PeeWeeDan

No. Although this poll proves the point of what I posted earlier.

Genuine question: Do you not feel ashamed flying the Israeli flag, parading it, in the wake of the inhumane actions of the Jewish government over the past few days?

Reply 7

Skipper

muscledog

Given its wanton aggression, has the state of Israel forfeited its right to exist? My opinion is that there is no right to exist in international affairs, though sovereignty is a normative principle that can be upheld through cooperation and international organizations and law. Because Israel has shown utter contempt toward the views of the international community and its normative standards, along with complete disregard for humanity in general, it does not deserve the protection rightly afforded to good international actors. It is a outlaw state and should be censured.

No but you certainly have.

Reply 8

PeeWeeDan

15

superstoke

Genuine question: Do you not feel ashamed flying the Israeli flag, parading it, in the wake of the inhumane actions of the Jewish government over the past few days?

I am proud of my country.

I copy and paste my views on my current events.

"The reason for the operation is the ongoing and insufferable terrorist fire on a quarter of a million Israeli citizens. Those citizens have been under incessant terror attacks from the Gaza Strip with thousands of missiles fired over the past eight years. No country in the world would be willing to accept this kind of onslaught on its citizens."

"The goal of the operation is to strike a major blow to Hamas's terror infrastructure and the ability of Hamas and its allied organizations to launch missiles and mortar shells at Israeli citizens and execute terror attacks of various kinds, such as kidnapping Israeli civilians."

"Hamas is responsible for the situation, since it violated the calm, is firing against and attacking Israeli citizens, and is investing all its resources in arming itself and gathering power."

"The terrorist organizations work out of the Palestinian population centers and cynically exploit them, so the responsibility for Palestinian civilians getting hurt rests on their shoulders. Hamas brings women and children up to the roofs of buildings housing terrorist activity in an attempt to prevent air strikes; it sends civilians to the line of fire; it works out of schools and mosques; it fires rockets out of crowded population centers; and it sends Palestinian mothers to murder Israeli children in suicide attacks."

"The truce brokered by Egypt was exploited by Hamas not only to employ terror against Israel's citizens, but also to gain strength and massively arm itself with the intention of increasing their capacity for terror and expanding the range of the threat against Israeli citizens. Hamas men were being smuggled out and were being trained in Iran and Syria."

"Israel does not want a humanitarian crisis, and Hamas is the cause of the suffering and distress of the population there."

"Most of the countries in the world and the United Nations have pronounced Hamas to be a terrorist organization, and they are boycotting all contact with it. Israel expects the world's nations to support Israel's war against this terror organization and even join the campaign."

"At the same time Israel is fighting terror, the government is deliberately and openly maintaining a political process with the elected Palestinian government headed by PA President Mahmoud Abbas and Prime Minister [Salaam] Fayad. Hamas opposes these negotiations and any settlement with Israel, and constitutes an unstable element in the region."

"Israel is prepared and ready to respond harshly to any attack or provocation by any factor in the region. This is a fight between Israel and terrorist elements acting against Israel's citizens, so there is no cause for any outside party to intervene."

Reply 9

Sync

14

superstoke

Genuine question: Do you not feel ashamed flying the Israeli flag, parading it, in the wake of the inhumane actions of the Jewish government over the past few days?

This works both ways. Ask the posters who fly Palestinian flags if they feel ashamed of the fact they democratically elected holocaust deniers who fire rockets and send suicide bombers into Israel. See, I can be disingenuous as well...

Reply 10

superstoke

Sync

This works both ways. Ask the posters who fly Palestinian flags if they feel ashamed of the fact they democratically elected holocaust deniers who fire rockets and sent suicide bombers into Israel.

That's a feeble and stupid retort simply because of the old "Two wrongs don't make a right" argument. I saw him flying his flags and was interested on his point of view, which he's been polite enough to relay.

PeeWeeDan: I'll read it now

Reply 11

Socrates

17

PeeWeeDan

Every time Israel takes any attack in the Gaza strip these discussions come up and they end up as an Israel-hatefest filled with people who come in and post one ignorant thing then leave. I notice none of them suggest something better that Israel could do to defend it's people.

Do you seriously think that this aggression by Israel is making her citizens 'safer'? And the fact that the Hamas rockets have been coming in for a while, but this particular moment is chosen for the operation, given its proximity to the general election is suspect.

Reply 12

Helikaon

8

How about saying that because of the zimbabwean government and their record of human rights abuse that they should not have the right to exist. Or indeed the Sudanese government should not be able to exist. Alot of people posting in these types of threads that are flaring up at the minute know very little about the conflict in and around Israel and therefore tend to put forward sensationalised arguments. There are two sides to a conflict and people tend to be forgetting that the palestinians are also involved here. There are right and wrongs on both sides of the conflict.

Reply 13

PeeWeeDan

15

superstoke

That's a feeble and stupid retort simply because of the old "Two wrongs don't make a right" argument. I saw him flying his flags and was interested on his point of view, which he's been polite enough to relay.

PeeWeeDan: I'll read it now

That wasn't my words, it's something the Israeli government sent out as PR, although I largely agree with it. If you want to have a proper discussion on this, we can do that... but honestly I cannot stand threads like this, they reek of "I'm an ignorant moron".

Reply 14

PeeWeeDan

15

Socrates

Do you seriously think that this aggression by Israel is making her citizens 'safer'? And the fact that the Hamas rockets have been coming in for a while, but this particular moment is chosen for the operation, given its proximity to the general election is suspect.

I think Operation Cast Lead will be followed by a large reduction or a complete stop of rocket fire on Southern Israel. Well, I hope.

Reply 15

Socrates

17

PeeWeeDan

I think Operation Cast Lead will be followed by a large reduction or a complete stop of rocket fire on Southern Israel. Well, I hope.

Well I don't think Hamas are gonna give up that easily, unfortunately. And then we just descend into even more violence, with casaulties all round. Its a war in which no one is a winner.

Reply 16

Sync

14

superstoke

That's a feeble and stupid retort simply because of the old "Two wrongs don't make a right" argument. I saw him flying his flags and was interested on his point of view, which he's been polite enough to relay.

PeeWeeDan: I'll read it now

Sorry, I realised that people might not pick up on the irony, hence my edit to include the fact that I was being deliberately disingenuous and effectively playing Devil's advocate. You must have quoted just before my edit.