This discussion is now closed.

Check out other Related discussions

Junior doctors

wideawake

F1 = PRHO/HO/JHO
F2 = SHO

I am trying to resist the urge to make sarcastic comments about cocky people who have the word spanner in their username

Sort of, but ST1/2s also often call themselves SHOs as they are nowhere near the experience level of a registrar even if that is their nominal title.

I'm not really sure what a nurse consultant is, but from my experience I do think it's different from a junior doctor. They tend to be specialists in one area, and often have their own caseload which they see independently and long-term. I've not done much in A&E etc so I'm not sure of what they do there, which I think might be a bit different.

There's another thread somewhere on here which explains what an F1 does - a lot of it is not very medical, involves running the firm's list, making sure all the jobs from the ward round/the nurses requests get done etc. When the team is on take, or if they're full-time in A&E/MAU it's a bit different and they do a lot more seeing patients on their own, but don't make many management decisions by themselves. F2s upwards can decide on things like admissions/discharges, but have to seek advice whenever they're not sure. They may help in clinics (generally F1s don't do clinics, though may do surgical pre-admissions ones, which are a bit different), or with specialist investigations.

Hope that helps.

Reply 21

wideawake

Helenia

Sort of, but ST1/2s also often call themselves SHOs as they are nowhere near the experience level of a registrar even if that is their nominal title.

Yes, I am aware of that thanks but I was answering the question about what an F1/F2 was in the context of how they differed to HO/SHO.

Reply 22

Saffie

11

I'm replicating people a bit but hey, ... on wards I've been on, no-one uses the titles F1 and F2. Instead the F1 is called the house officer and the F2 is a senior house officer. But then ST1-3 (?), i.e. people that aren't yet registrars are also called senior house officers.

On some wards, the house officer does almost exactly the same as the senior house officer, bar perhaps the house officer must update the patient list. This means that all (or most) of the jobs get divided between the HO and SHO. This seems to be more in 'medicine' wards than 'surgical' wards.

On other wards, the SHO never seems to be around and the HO has to do a million jobs without much senior support.. this is more likely on surgical wards. I imagine many teams are somewhere in between.

SHOs have more clinics.. on my surgery firm, whenever the SHO, reg and consultant have outpatient clinics, the HO has pre-assesment clinic- for patients pre-surgery.

As a nurse, the HO and sometimes the SHO are the most assessible to you. The HO is the person you annoyingly get to rewrite your drug charts or write up more painkillers or redo cannulas.. etc. The HO has to do a disproportionate amount of work generally, especially when the SHO is unhelpful. They both may attend theatre but for the HO its more optional than necessary.

Reply 23

Helenia

20

wideawake

Yes, I am aware of that thanks but I was answering the question about what an F1/F2 was in the context of how they differed to HO/SHO.

Fair enough, just thought it was worth pointing out that F2s aren't the only "SHOs" around. I suppose it's all rather dependent on specialty how much their roles actually differ.

Reply 24

Huw Davies

11

Traditionally, all doctors below consultant level were "junior doctors", though I don't know if that still applies.

Reply 25

Egypt

9

anna_spanner89

nooo...eg f1, f2 etc- basically those doctors i see on the ward being a bit cocky when they're fresh out of med school lol im confused with the terms as the nurses call them different names...usually some not very nice lol

Ive been working on a post-natal ward so havn't had much experience with them really

Doesn't sound like very pleasant people you've been working with. all the nurses I have been working with have been delighltful, bar one very angry technician!

Reply 26

davey jones

1

same as any other profession, some doctors are total :santa2:

. even when they are junior doctors, they are still :santa2:

. right through to becoming a consultant they remain :santa2:

.

Reply 27

DrVas

and others are and will always be friendly and hardworking.

Reply 28

davey jones

1

same as any other profession really. but it is easy to make a good impression bad, it is very different to change a bad impression to a good one. what i am saying is... there are some right :santa2:

in medicine, they give a lot of other doctors a bad reputation. nursing is similar, 1 bad experience of a ward and the whole hospital is written off by some.

Reply 29

Sarky

18

whats with all the :santa2:

santas? its very distracting?

Reply 30

LozengeC

9

DrVas

Not really, the nurses help the junior doctors, and the junior doctors do all the running around trying to get the "I cant be asked doctors" to do the Scans.
Then they run it by one of their colleagues before giving the diagnosis, and treatment, then kicking them out to the Medics or Surgeons.

That what Junior docs do in A&E.

Also when the nurses cant get the blood from the patent in the normal places, the junior doc have to try and get it using a small needle(butterfly needle) from the small veins in the hand/foot.

That sounds like what I saw in Orthopedics on work experience too. :p:

Was quite different in Geriatrics and Cardiology though. :biggrin:

Reply 31

RetiredAccount89

18

DrVas

Not really, the nurses help the junior doctors, and the junior doctors do all the running around trying to get the "I cant be asked doctors" to do the Scans.
Then they run it by one of their colleagues before giving the diagnosis, and treatment, then kicking them out to the Medics or Surgeons.

That what Junior docs do in A&E.

Also when the nurses cant get the blood from the patent in the normal places, the junior doc have to try and get it using a small needle(butterfly needle) from the small veins in the hand/foot.

"I cant be asked doctors"

the what?

Reply 32

Democracy

20

Jamie

"I cant be asked doctors"

the what?

Maybe he's referring to radiologists? :dontknow:

Reply 33

Muse

13

Saffie

But then ST1-3 (?), i.e. people that aren't yet registrars are also called senior house officers.

On one of my wards the way it goes is:

F1: HO
F2 - ST2: SHO
ST3+ Registrar

I think ST1 & ST2 = CT1 & CT2, ie core medical or surgical training. For instance, initially, ST1 and ST2 in General Medicine, then apply for 'registrar' jobs, so becoming ST3 in Cardiology/Resp etc.

I think I now want to be a cardiologist - and the cycle changes again....

Reply 34

wideawake

No-one has included non training grades in their doctor hierachy since the thread has drifted away from what foundation doctors are. From my experience trust grades and clinical fellows tend to be SHO level, staff grade are registrar level and associate specialist consultant level. I expect this varies a lot between trusts though.

Reply 35

DrVas

Jamie

"I cant be asked doctors"

the what?

Democracy

Maybe he's referring to radiologists? :dontknow:

I was referring to radiologist but they have massive ques of people to get through to they are not very patient.

Reply 36

InArduisFouette

21

DrVas

<snip>

Also when the nurses cant get the blood from the patent in the normal places, the junior doc have to try and get it using a small needle(butterfly needle) from the small veins in the hand/foot.