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In the BMJ this week - 1000 applicants per SHO post

In this weeks BMJ careers this is the headline. SO may I ask why are you lot bothering with medicine? I sit it on interview panels and it is so patently obvious that most of you lot have this deluded idea that medicine is paved with $$$$$$$$$$$$. So may I ask the question why? I certainly do to interviewees and can see right through most of them!!

Regards
Doctor in practice.

Reply 1

Fluffy

15

sidprho

In this weeks BMJ careers this is the headline. SO may I ask why are you lot bothering with medicine? I sit it on interview panels and it is so patently obvious that most of you lot have this deluded idea that medicine is paved with $$$$$$$$$$$$. So may I ask the question why? I certainly do to interviewees and can see right through most of them!!

Regards
Doctor in practice.

May be you should get out. From most of your posts you seem to be the one obsessed with the $£$£$£££. Did you go into med at 18 without experiencing the real world? Do you feel let down?

There's much more to life than money.

Why do it? Because nothing else will do. There are a myriad of reasons why people want to persue a career in medicine, not many of them are money.

Reply 2

wednesburywench

2

if i was after the money i wudnt be going into medicine. There is money yes.....after your about 45! It takes a lot of years to get that money, so if i was in it for the money.....id be a dentist, as the consultant my mom knows said....tell her to do dentistry.

Why didnt i do dentistry? cus the idea bores the hell outa me!

For me medicine is about having a stimulating career one where you put back into the community and no day is the same. You get to see your work helping others, and your life is never that 9-5 boring feeling. Dentistry is 9-5, loaded with cash and mainly........the same day in day out!

theres my bit.....some med applicants undoubtidly will be in it for the money purely because mommy or daddy sent them to a private school, to get the money... i for one is not one of them!

Reply 3

Elles

17

wednesburywench

.....some med applicants undoubtidly will be in it for the money purely because mommy or daddy sent them to a private school, to get the money... i for one is not one of them!

in the nicest possible way..try & remove that chip before starting medical school..? :p:

by a similar token - surely all poor state-school commoners are just in it to get their deprived hands on wads of cash rather than turning to criminal activity? :wink:

i'm not convinced you can generalise medical student motivations by background to that extent!

some medical students may 'be in it for the money' (though that doesn't seem like an all-too-bright motivation to have) - good luck to them if they can make it through the applications process, the degree, job hunting, then junior years with merely the motivation of decent-ish pay some years in..! :eek:

Reply 4

wednesburywench

2

yea soz i didnt mean it to sound like a steriotype/generalisation there. I just was makin the point some peopel are forced into it by parents, or largley influenced by them wanting it for them. i didnt mean private school people are all in it for the money. I meant im sure a lot of the people pushed into it by parents are from private schools, as their parents have always wanted the best for them. sorry bout that!

Reply 5

Elles

17

fair enough then.. :smile:

wednesburywench

I meant im sure a lot of the people pushed into it by parents are from private schools, as their parents have always wanted the best for them. sorry bout that!

but then there's also the debate that certain ethnic groups may be pushed into medicine by the prized role of the Doctors status in their culture..

i'm still not convinced that attending a private school would make you significantly more likely to become a Dr despite not really wanting to. admittedly, more private school pupils may start studying medicine - but perhaps this is just due to encouraged aspirations & generally better grades, not 'pushing' per se.

anyway, after the first year attrition rate, i stand by my points that applications, the nature of the degree, then presumably the junior years are fairly good at weeding out the less motivated..! :p:

Reply 6

Fluffy

15

Elles

but then there's also the debate that certain ethnic groups may be pushed into medicine by the prized role of the Doctors status in their culture..

This is one that makes me feel a little sad - the daughter of our local newsagent 'wants' to be a doctor, but she told me a few weekends back that she actually doesn't, but her mum and dad have told her that's what she's going to do. She's 12, and thinks she wants to be a chef...

Reply 7

Muse

13

If I wanted to have been rich, I would have done law. Am seriously looking forward to doing a 'proper' science degree next year though for a bit of depth :wink:

(And an extra year to spend at uni!! :biggrin:

)

Reply 8

Fluffy

15

timeofyourlife

If I wanted to have been rich, I would have done law. Am seriously looking forward to doing a 'proper' science degree next year though for a bit of depth :wink:

(And an extra year to spend at uni!! :biggrin:

)

I wouldn't - my partners a Barrister, and for the first 5 or so years post-qualification (after jumping through these hoops: degree, (conversion if required), BVC, pupillage and tenancy), are not well renumerated at all.

I'd go for being a trader, risk the burn out and hopefully get very rich, quick. I would live on Champagne and Champagne, neglecting food as it interferes with Champagne uptake :wink:

, before realising that I've wasted my life and my liver thus retiring to a life on the streets of Soho.

Reply 9

Daveo

16

sidprho

In this weeks BMJ careers this is the headline. SO may I ask why are you lot bothering with medicine? I sit it on interview panels and it is so patently obvious that most of you lot have this deluded idea that medicine is paved with $$$$$$$$$$$$. So may I ask the question why? I certainly do to interviewees and can see right through most of them!!

Regards
Doctor in practice.

Having regrets about something are we?
You seem to underestimate my intelligence, I know medicine isn't a gold mine, as do most of my friends, It may be bigheaded of me to say so but I probably could have got on a course which would have offered a lot more in terms of potential financial benefit....however, I didn't i'm doing medicine for my own reasons, not because i 'think' there is a fast buck to be made. :mad:

Reply 10

wednesburywench

2

does my head in when people accuse you of doing it for the money. would i really put myself through this much stress if i didnt actually want to do the job apart from the money. thats a sorry case about the 12 year old. i hope she doesnt listen, its such a shame. Also annoys me when people say they think that you are better than them cus u study medicine! i dont think im better than anyone, and dont think doctors should be seen as higher in society than nurses. after todays trip to the gp i have a lot more respect for the practice nurse, as the doctor dont give a **** there, but the nurse was seeing everyone :smile:

Reply 11

wickedsingh

sidprho

In this weeks BMJ careers this is the headline. SO may I ask why are you lot bothering with medicine? I sit it on interview panels and it is so patently obvious that most of you lot have this deluded idea that medicine is paved with $$$$$$$$$$$$. So may I ask the question why? I certainly do to interviewees and can see right through most of them!!

Regards
Doctor in practice.

How can this be? The way i understand it is that a. There is a shortage of consultants/ doctors/ gps b. The government has increased the number of places at medical school to meet the demand c. The goverment is trying to fast track the time it takes to become a consultant.

So having a bottleneck at SHO level makes no sense. I thought it was a matter of doing the two years as prho and then progressing onto SHO. And i assumed getting SHO job was pretty straightforward after 2 years as PRHO.

Can someone with some knowledge about this matter explain?

Reply 12

sidprho

OP

you are seriously deluded. in BMJ careers there is a letter from unemployed british graduate SHO in this weeks BMJ careers. Read the recent stuff in the British Journals for more info.

Regards

wickedsingh

How can this be? The way i understand it is that a. There is a shortage of consultants/ doctors/ gps b. The government has increased the number of places at medical school to meet the demand c. The goverment is trying to fast track the time it takes to become a consultant.

So having a bottleneck at SHO level makes no sense. I thought it was a matter of doing the two years as prho and then progressing onto SHO. And i assumed getting SHO job was pretty straightforward after 2 years as PRHO.

Can someone with some knowledge about this matter explain?

Reply 13

Muse

13

How come you've got time to sit on interview panels as a PRHO? Which university are you affiliated with / what's the set up of your PRHO year?

Reply 14

Fluffy

15

wickedsingh

How can this be? The way i understand it is that a. There is a shortage of consultants/ doctors/ gps b. The government has increased the number of places at medical school to meet the demand c. The goverment is trying to fast track the time it takes to become a consultant.

So having a bottleneck at SHO level makes no sense. I thought it was a matter of doing the two years as prho and then progressing onto SHO. And i assumed getting SHO job was pretty straightforward after 2 years as PRHO.

Can someone with some knowledge about this matter explain?

No - there are not enough jobs to go around. The whole not enough doctors thing is something put about by the government to try to justify the current state of the NHS.

In order to progress through training there needs to be more medical academics to teach people. Part of the real problem lies here, in that academic medicine is a difficult thing to do - there's no clear career path, and the minefield re: pay - working out who pays for what (NHS/deaneries/medical schools/research councils) is a total nightmare.

aLso the aim of fast tracking isn't to get people to consultant more quickly, it's to try to get around the fact that there are nowhere near enough people to teach - and that goes for all stages, pre- and post degree of yorur career training!

Reply 15

sidprho

OP

You are all missing the main point. The fact is there are record numbers of overseas doctors passing the PLAB exam and competing for the same jobs as local graduates. Read the letter from the Scottish doctors in this weeks BMJ. This is the main reason.

To Timeofyourlife : You are asking a distinctly personal question. All I will say is that I am in the North of England. How and if I get the time off is frankly none of your business!

To Fluffy: Not sure where you got that notion from. Have a look at all my previous posts, dont think I have mentioned money at all with regards to doctors salaries.

Reply 16

Fluffy

15

sidprho

You are all missing the main point. The fact is there are record numbers of overseas doctors passing the PLAB exam and competing for the same jobs as local graduates. Read the letter from the Scottish doctors in this weeks BMJ. This is the main reason.

Bothered! That's now, and is not representative of what will happen in 5 years time!

Also your 'figures' ot lack of them :wink:

are very trust specific. I should know I work part time in HR for one of Londons biggest NHS Trusts.....

Reply 17

Fluffy

15

sidprho

To Fluffy: Not sure where you got that notion from. Have a look at all my previous posts, dont think I have mentioned money at all with regards to doctors salaries.

You mentioned money and the lack of it in your very first post!

Also, have you changed your views on Scotland now? I draw your attention to this post you made:

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1425657&postcount=7

sidprho

I hardly think Scotland is representative of the rest of the country where over 80% of doctors practice! Also A&E is only one of the 35 odd specialities out there.
K So go and work in Scotland if you want to. Also if you want to believe everything in the media then go ahead. Not exactly the same as reality. The BBC had for example an article about unemployed docs in the South East that was printed in a medical journal. So there is always a different side.

from this thread:
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1425657#post1425657

Reply 18

shiny

12

sidprho

In this weeks BMJ careers this is the headline. SO may I ask why are you lot bothering with medicine? I sit it on interview panels and it is so patently obvious that most of you lot have this deluded idea that medicine is paved with $$$$$$$$$$$$. So may I ask the question why? I certainly do to interviewees and can see right through most of them!!

Regards
Doctor in practice.

Why are you bothering either? When my benabots come out all medics will be out of a job :biggrin:

Reply 19

sidprho

OP

Ok Fluffy here is your insatiable appetite for stats that you so desperately crave. This is the warning issued by the Academy of Royal Colleges last week.
It is issued on behalf of the UK Academy of Royal Colleges

1. Competition for House Officer and Senior House Officer posts in the UK is currently very high
2. 36% of overseas graduates who passed PLAB part 2 in June 2003 were still unemployed 6 months later
3. Your first post in the UK may only be a non-training, locum or honorary post
4. There are on average 210 applicants for each junior doctor advertisement in the UK. Eight recent advertisements
have attracted over 1000 applicants
5. Because of the very large numbers of applicants, varying, sometimes random, methods of selection are used to
shortlist candidates.
6. There are on average 400 applicants for each House Officer advertisement
in the UK

In the BMJ this week - 1000 applicants per SHO post

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