In pledging to the Queen does this mean you support the way britain treated Ireland ?

dddd

You fall on your face as soon as you mention Margaret Thatcher. The woman was a neo-conservative freedom-hater. She was probably considering a repeal of the United State's independence.

Freedom-hater? Don't make me laugh. Thatcher cared more deeply about individual liberty than any post-war Prime Minister before or since. Then again, by advocating Nationalism I doubt you have a great deal of time for liberty yourself.

Your second comment is just nonsense.

So nice to know she believes Ireland is "British". I wonder do the Irish get a say

I doubt the people of Finchley get 'a say' either. Welcome to the wonderful world of statehood.

Reply 82

russiaismyvogue

L i b

That's ludicrous on two fronts. Firstly not being in Britain doesn't make something not British. .

States.

ireland isnt british ,it's like saying britain is Irish.

Reply 83

russiaismyvogue

dddd

So nice to know she believes Ireland is "British". I wonder do the Irish get a say

this is what annoys me about british people ,they seem to think they own everything or have some superior right to,it's ridiculous. Ireland is it's own country the british need to stay out of other countries business .(im welsh but i dont consider myself british my parents are french)

Reply 84

russiaismyvogue

Welcome to arguing with Lib. Have been in too many "debates" with him over Ireland to count, I've came to the conclusion that the only thing we agree about is whisky and smoking.

"Ireland is British", "Britain is Irish", "all are European" - who cares. My own opinion is that Britain has had a massive part to play in the development of Irish history and likewise for British history and Ireland, right down to pre-Roman times when Irishness nor Britishness existed, when all parts of the two islands were split into kingdoms who all thought they had bigger dick sizes than each other. :shifty:

I'd rather focus on preserving/promoting my countries history than get involved in the politics of the country again.

Reply 85

russiaismyvogue

Then do us all a favor and go to back to France, and take your flawed, illogical opinions with you.

Wales has had as much part in the shaping of Britain as England, Scotland and Ireland has. So if you are Welsh, then you are by all means British aswell. You sit there on your high horse regurgitating all these un-founded statements about Britain, yet I'm sure that British taxpayers money has gone towards your healthcare and education.

Reply 86

russiaismyvogue

ireland isnt british ,it's like saying britain is Irish.

Ireland was British by virtue of being part of the country called Britain, just as Northern Ireland is now.

russiaismyvogue

this is what annoys me about british people ,they seem to think they own everything or have some superior right to,it's ridiculous.

My 'right' to anything comes from it being morally sound, not because of my nationality.

Ireland is it's own country the british need to stay out of other countries business .(im welsh but i dont consider myself british my parents are french)

I consider that simply vulgar nationalism and thoroughly bigoted.

Reply 87

L i b

Ireland was British by virtue of being part of the country called Britain, just as Northern Ireland is now.

My 'right' to anything comes from it being morally sound, not because of my nationality.

I consider that simply vulgar nationalism and thoroughly bigoted.

I dunno Lib, how exactly is it vulgar and bigoted to suggest that the British not invade other countries?

Reply 88

Jim-ie

I'd rather focus on preserving/promoting my countries history than get involved in the politics of the country again.

And that's something which people of any political views can do well.

In fact, a blog I was reading (written by a Unionist in NI) posted the following manifesto commitment of the Conservative Party, but instead of leaving the original references to 'Welsh' etc, changed them to 'Irish' as appropriate:

"Irish Language and Heritage

·Every community must feel part of the N.Ireland and United Kingdom we are trying to build, which means (for example) protecting and cherishing our Irish language and Heritage.

·The Assembly’s failure to support a daily Irish Language newspaper has made it harder for Irish speaking communities to play a full role in our success as a nation - we would have given it our support.

·We call on the Assembly Government to do more to improve the status of the Irish language in N. Ireland."

It would be good if the new NITories/UUPers were mature enough to make those sort of commitments in NI.

Reply 89

Jim-ie

I dunno Lib, how exactly is it vulgar and bigoted to suggest that the British not invade other countries?

Well, let's go back to the original statement that I took offence at:

"the british need to stay out of other countries business"

That's a bit different really. Personally, as you know, I'm not one for nationalism; it's perhaps a simplistic comparison but imagine if someone replaced nationality with race there: would you consider that bigotry? Personally, I don't see a great deal of difference - they're both arbitrary, half-baked ideals that seem to have been substituted in place or respecting the rights of individuals and actually recognising their own individual sense of identity.

Reply 90

the british need to stay out of other countries business

Then why do all these countries look upon us and the USA to police the world and solve their problems?

When we become involved we are branded as policing the world and when we don't become involved we are seen as doing nothing and letting people suffer.

Reply 91

L i b

I certainly welcome any unionist that wants to try and make those changes, it shows a progressive mentality that might be too advanced for current unionist thinking though, theres not a chance the DUP (or the UUP) will even think about it though. Which is unfortunate, as the Irish language and culture is as much theirs as it is mine.

L i b

I don't feel that what you said justifies invading other countries, though. Wether or not you agree with nationalism, its still there and it gives no right to any country to invade another, especially for its own personal greed. Britain was lucky enough to be an island inbetween the contenant and Ireland which staved off a fair few invasions, but if another country had of invaded Britain I'm certain you and others who are likeminded would be the first to rally British nationalism (or patriotism if you want) to kick out foreign invaders (I'd also find it hard to believe you wouldnt turn to paramilitary tactics if discussions went no where, as Britain was ready to do if Nazi invasion actually happened!). This isn't so much about respecting the rights of individuals as respecting cultures on a whole and respecting the right of those people in far away lands to govern and control their own destiny and not have foreigners from a small island on the atlantic ocean do it for them, at least, not for me. Any foreign invader to Britain certainly wouldn't respect your culture, and Britain didn't respect the culture of those it invaded.

Reply 92

stormfire

Who, exactly, looks upon Britain and the US to police the world?

I don't recall Iraqis inviting British and American troops to bomb them :santa2:

Reply 93

Jim-ie

Who, exactly, looks upon Britain and the US to police the world?

I don't recall Iraqis inviting British and American troops to bomb them :santa2:

Just look at the Israel/Hamas crisis, there is an obvious viewpoint that the UK/US and European countries should become involved.

Reply 94

stormfire

Just look at the Israel/Hamas crisis, there is an obvious viewpoint that the UK/US and European countries should become involved.

I would hope so considering both the us and europe have had a part to play in the problems since day one.

israel and palestine is too complicated for either country or the us/europe to sort out, it'll be going on for decades regardless of our interventions.

Reply 95

Jim-ie

I would hope so considering both the us and europe have had a part to play in the problems since day one.

Exactly though, we are expected to intervene but I promise you when we do there will be protests and fingers pointed at the UK for policing the world.

Jim-ie

israel and palestine is too complicated for either country or the us/europe to sort out, it'll be going on for decades regardless of our interventions.

Really? I'm thinking that Hamas will be crushed very soon.

Reply 96