University is for the middle classes
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4974460.stm has some interesting questions.
The traditional definition of working classes is that they only have their labour to "sell" in return for a wage and are not responsible for managing anyone, then they are working class.
Which then implies that middle class people are in managerial/supervisory occupations.
The rise of the "helicopter parent" that micromanage their children is not something the traditional class descriptions have accounted for - likewise teenage and mass-university cultures. (i.e. lots of people studying and working part-time in "working class" jobs such as in supermarkets.)
The traditional definition of working classes is that they only have their labour to "sell" in return for a wage and are not responsible for managing anyone, then they are working class.
Which then implies that middle class people are in managerial/supervisory occupations.
The rise of the "helicopter parent" that micromanage their children is not something the traditional class descriptions have accounted for - likewise teenage and mass-university cultures. (i.e. lots of people studying and working part-time in "working class" jobs such as in supermarkets.)
I intend to go to a uni, a damn good one hopefully, and I do not in any way see myself as middle class; i'm working class and I always will be.
However, if i go to uni, get a good job, and eventually lead a comfortable existence, then my children may become middle class.
My definition of middle class is people have parents that work in a profession, although working in a profession does not automatically mean that you are working class, anybody else that does not, is working class.
However, if i go to uni, get a good job, and eventually lead a comfortable existence, then my children may become middle class.
My definition of middle class is people have parents that work in a profession, although working in a profession does not automatically mean that you are working class, anybody else that does not, is working class.
To be honest, with the labour government wanting 50% of all 18/19 years olds going to university, you can hardly say it is for the middle classes.
50 years ago, hell even 20 years ago, then it was definitely for upper class. Nowadays, there are so many loans and scholarships going around, that people from the lower classes are going too.
And how do you define middle class? Someone who gets mummy and daddy to pay? Someone who has their own car? Someone who can just about manage to live independently?
You can't make a generalised statement like that because there are too many confounding factors.
50 years ago, hell even 20 years ago, then it was definitely for upper class. Nowadays, there are so many loans and scholarships going around, that people from the lower classes are going too.
And how do you define middle class? Someone who gets mummy and daddy to pay? Someone who has their own car? Someone who can just about manage to live independently?
You can't make a generalised statement like that because there are too many confounding factors.
I'm sure it should be quite the opposite, as, at least among people I know, it's the norm for the more middle class/ rich people to go to university, whereas obviously among people I know who are more working class it's considered not the done thing to do, hence they have to be more committed to doing it, in contrast to middle class people, who often just seem to drift in to university just because they think they should be going there
Education does not create class... if your parents are uneducated working in low wage jobs and you come from a working class culture you do not become middle class by simply going to university. You must understand the culture of wealth to become middle class. Otherwise you're just a parvenu.
Urgh, from what I've experienced, the "middle class" students are the ones whose mummy and daddy pay their accomodation and food money into their account and STILL complain when they spend it all on designer crap and have no money to go out and have fun with...
Bagration
Is there a problem with this?
There is when they complain about their lack of money and whinge they have nothing when you've worked your arse off to earn money to be able to go to uni in the first place and they've rode in on the back of Mummy and Daddys credit card having gone backpacking across europe (again, on the back of Mummy and Daddys credit card).
middle class is so vague as to be ridiculous. Although the credit crunch ahs changed this to a large extent, over the last 15 years, any old fool could take out a 100% mortgage on a nice 5 bedroom detached house and get a bmw on finance and they'd be indistinguishable from the 300k a year business owner who bought his house next door with cash and drives a similar car. Because finance is not often discussed, for years anybody could become middle class (or have the image anyway, which tbf is all the term describes. it is about portraying an image, puke). So, the term has become pointless really. the only classes now as far as i am concerned are those who inherit wealth and those who don't...the rest is just a big blur
Danielle89
Urgh, from what I've experienced, the "middle class" students are the ones whose mummy and daddy pay their accomodation and food money into their account and STILL complain when they spend it all on designer crap and have no money to go out and have fun with...
Lol take out designer crap and put in excessive amounts of expensive pizzas and curry and thats me
danielle89
hey've rode in on the back of Mummy and Daddys credit card having gone backpacking across europe (again, on the back of Mummy and Daddys credit card).
Whats wrong with that. Yes I spend my parents cash, but I intend to provide my kids with a fantastic education and pay them through uni too.
Turdburger
Lol take out designer crap and put in excessive amounts of expensive pizzas and curry and thats me
LOL, see I eat the expensive currys and have expensive nights out but it comes out of my own pocket. Not judging anyone who has parents who are willing to provide the money for this, but where's the appreciation for their sacrifice? I wouldnt dare fritter away my parents money on nothing simply because they would have to struggle so much to give me it in the first place and go without themselves for it to happen
Turdburger
Whats wrong with that. Yes I spend my parents cash, but I intend to provide my kids with a fantastic education and pay them through uni too.
Its only wrong when the kids clearly dont appreciate it and try to get the sympathy vote when they've got no money left...
Danielle89
There is when they complain about their lack of money and whinge they have nothing when you've worked your arse off to earn money to be able to go to uni in the first place and they've rode in on the back of Mummy and Daddys credit card having gone backpacking across europe (again, on the back of Mummy and Daddys credit card).
olegirona
middle class is so vague as to be ridiculous. Although the credit crunch ahs changed this to a large extent, over the last 15 years, any old fool could take out a 100% mortgage on a nice 5 bedroom detached house and get a bmw on finance and they'd be indistinguishable from the 300k a year business owner who bought his house next door with cash and drives a similar car. Because finance is not often discussed, for years anybody could become middle class (or have the image anyway, which tbf is all the term describes. it is about portraying an image, puke). So, the term has become pointless really. the only classes now as far as i am concerned are those who inherit wealth and those who don't...the rest is just a big blur
You should visit some council estates or take a look at the statistics on social inequalities which show we still live in a very much class-divided society.
Danielle89
Its only wrong when the kids clearly dont appreciate it and try to get the sympathy vote when they've got no money left...
Good post, I agree.
Bagration
Sounds like someone's bitter.
Who wouldn't be?
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Anyway, I see a large population of upper-working class and lower-middle class who are shovelling themselves into universities but going to bad universities or doing rather bad degrees. Upper-working class/Lower-middle class are people who struggle to pay a mortage yet go to holidays and buy iPhones. They live in luxury via debt, they hold lots of responsibilty for the recession. However, they go to university but struggle to pay for fees because they are under the watershed for mummy and daddy to pay but are too rich for the state to pay their way.
Bagration
Sounds like someone's bitter.
Pft, not at all. At least I'll have the self-satisfaction that I got myself through uni alone without relying on others to bail me out, and have the budgetting skills everyone needs to survive during/after uni. Like I said in a post above, fair play to parents who are willing/able to pay for everything for their kids, but you'd think they could have the decency to be grateful for it
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