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Is it ever acceptable to torture people for a greater cause?

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    (Original post by Thoughtless)
    if im being tortured then eventually im gonna admit to all sorts of crap that i didnt do - whats the point? How do you know whats true and whats not?
    You seem to suffer from the delusion that torture is always about securing confessions. In fact, it's not, torture to secure confessions is rather pointless and a waste of time. What torture is more likely to be about is to garner useful information about whatever the torturer wants to know about (plots, co-conspirators, etc.) And so obviously the way to check what's true and what's not is to take the information given and see where it leads. For example, if the guy gives up a location, you go see what's there. Not rocket science.
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    I guess noone watches 24.... the new series is going pretty heavy on the 'torture is the only way to get the information you need quickly' propaganda. still awesome though, and i think they have a point.
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    yes
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    yeah, at the end of the day every man for himself
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    No..
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    It depends what this "greater cause" is.

    If you torture people to extract information from them, there's a chance you're torturing someone who doesn't actually know anything, and will resort to giving false information just to stop the torture.

    If you're torturing Hitler or something... be my guest.
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    If I have to hurt one person to save the lives of many others then that is fine.

    2 > 1
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    Rendition is a great movie. I would recommend it.
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    (Original post by kadhumia_flo)
    Rendition is a great movie. I would recommend it.
    Ahhh finally, some support, De Palma pulled it off pretty well in Rend..

    Torture is wrong, specially of the innocent.. there are more humane methods of extracting information..
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    (Original post by Pavlik)
    There are certain conditions that justify it, such as in the case of muslim terrorists. A torturous death by hanging is also justifiable as punishment for certain crimes, in my opinion.
    And if you get a smalltime terrorist who knows nothing?? Whats the point of torturing him??
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    (Original post by DaveParlour)
    Well that money would be used to fund more of their operations causing more harm so no.

    Also it would only encourage them to do it more, "hey, we hatch a plan and sell it to ......... = $$$".

    I don't really see why you chose Hamas as the terrorist group either.

    So why give terrorists a major recruiting coup when all the muslims in the hood hear about some guy back in the motherland who was tortured to death for being a taxi driver in the wrong place at the wrong time? People will hear about torture in today's society with today's millitary, since most soldiers actually have conciences and many would be very ill at ease with the idea of torturing randomers to death.
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    (Original post by kultist)
    So why give terrorists a major recruiting coup when all the muslims in the hood hear about some guy back in the motherland who was tortured to death for being a taxi driver in the wrong place at the wrong time? People will hear about torture in today's society with today's millitary, since most soldiers actually have conciences and many would be very ill at ease with the idea of torturing randomers to death.
    Already been covered, I'm not going to go in circles in an old thread.
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    (Original post by DaveParlour)
    Already been covered, I'm not going to go in circles in an old thread.
    You didn't cover the point that some people have serious moral issues with torturing people, especially if they have not been convicted of any crime. These people will be whistleblowers, this will get on the 6 o clock news, and rumor and innuendo will do the rest.
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    (Original post by kultist)
    You didn't cover the point that some people have serious moral issues with torturing people, especially if they have not been convicted of any crime. These people will be whistleblowers, this will get on the 6 o clock news, and rumor and innuendo will do the rest.
    But these aren't going to be just regular infantry men are they now, chances are they will be highly trained units and loyalty to the unit overides most moral code. And im not talking about plucking guys out of taxi cabs on the off chance they are terrorists, im talking more about known terrorists/ enemy combatants.
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    (Original post by DaveParlour)
    But these aren't going to be just regular infantry men are they now, chances are they will be highly trained units and loyalty to the unit overides most moral code. And im not talking about plucking guys out of taxi cabs on the off chance they are terrorists, im talking more about known terrorists/ enemy combatants.
    But when it's all in secret, we can't tell if we've been plucking guys out of taxi cabs in any case. As it turns out, that's what we have been doing in several cases.
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    (Original post by kultist)
    But when it's all in secret, we can't tell if we've been plucking guys out of taxi cabs in any case. As it turns out, that's what we have been doing in several cases.
    So you say that because it's in secret we can't tell if/ to who they have been doing it, and then claim that we have been doing it?
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    (Original post by DaveParlour)
    So you say that because it's in secret we can't tell if/ to who they have been doing it, and then claim that we have been doing it?
    Yeah, that was my other point. It was supposed to be a damn secret at guantanamo bay. Hell, Guantanamo bay is proof that you don't need the people involved to even be whistleblowers. All it takes is a slip of the tongue from your 'super duper secret torture team' member to another soldier, and rumor spreads untill someone gets interested enough to sneak cameras in there.
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    Sadly torture is very successful. People will roll out the same line that a tortured person will say anything and that is true of an innocent person but with the drugs cocktail combination operatives use the truth always comes out.

    Torture has given up the location of every major terrorist killed in Afghanistan/Pakistan so yes, it is justifiable.

    It is the human condition: A few must sacrifice their lives, their humanity to protect the lives and humanity of the many. If you disagree, and you are perfectly entitled to, then you are the sheep, if you agree then you are the shepherd.
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    (Original post by The_Bear)
    Sadly torture is very successful. People will roll out the same line that a tortured person will say anything and that is true of an innocent person but with the drugs cocktail combination operatives use the truth always comes out.

    Torture has given up the location of every major terrorist killed in Afghanistan/Pakistan so yes, it is justifiable.

    It is the human condition: A few must sacrifice their lives, their humanity to protect the lives and humanity of the many. If you disagree, and you are perfectly entitled to, then you are the sheep, if you agree then you are the shepherd.
    Okay, you are eminently unqualified to speak on this subject. You know why? Because you think that truth serums work. The most famous truth serum is sodium pentathol. Sodium pentathol is a barbituate. Barbituates do not make you tell the truth, they make you dopey. If someone tries to lie to you, you might be able to tell that they are lying, and if a person is especially weak minded you might be able to get the truth from them BUT, you have no way of knowing if they're telling the truth or they're just confused. In fact, if a person knows he's going to be interrogated, he could spend all day thinking a lie untill his doped up self believed it to be true, sending his interrogators on a wild goose chase.

    Now, despite their utter worthlessness as far as getting reliable information goes, there is a reason why people like the KBG swore by it. If a person is doped to the gills, and you ask them if they're a major terrorist leader, there is a good chance they will just nod and murmor "oh, right, yeah". That's the reason truth serums are counted as torture, because they're only good for getting confessions out of people.
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    Haha, torture used for confessions? Wow, you lived in the Middle Ages or something? Why would you want a confession? You want to convict them? Torture is not admissable in court. Torture is used to extract information from military targets, people who have been captured in combat, things like that.

    Sodium Thiapentol? OK, maybe not the middle ages, maybe the 1920s. I'm not talking about truth serums, I am talking about top secret ****, the torture gets the truth out the drugs **** up their brains so they dont even know what decade they are in.

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